Who needs a pole vault coach?

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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby CB550 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:57 pm

How many years are you willing to coach to create this kind vaulting program? How much of your personal finances are you willing to sink into poles? Coaching and developing vaulters is not a "Flash in the Pan" endeavor. It takes years, even decades to develop a program. It takes personal financial sacrifice also. Any coach can have one or two good vaulters in their career, but a "program" is reflective of numbers of vaulters over the long haul. Extra time must be spent with vaulters to develop them year in and year out.

In order to have a situation like you've described the focus most be on the developement of the whole vaulter, and not just x's and o's. Technique can be learned from reading and watching video. However application of those techniques learned takes time, and creative instructional methods in order to reach all the vaulters. The great athletes will pick things up easier, however they don't make up the bulk of your vaulters over the long haul. Teaching methods have got to reach all vaulters, not just the gifted. One more thing. Heading a program that developes the technical, physical, mental, emotional parts of vaulting takes time.

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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby EIUvltr » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:53 pm

altius wrote:"I care about finding the best athletes to score me points in the meets that matter. Isn't that what sports is about? Winning?" You have confirmed that you re definitely in the wrong business. For the vast majority of coaches, sport provides an opportunity to change peoples lives for the better - striving to win is far more important winning because it is the process that is important not the product. I suggest you take a look at the Olympic Creed and at Teddy Roosevelt's words on the subject of competition. I would also suggest that if you -and your athletes are focussed on winning instead of focussing on how you can best prepare yourselves to win you are not going to be successful coach. Finally i would suggest that if you see your athletes as merely vehicles to build your ego then again you are in the wrong business. I just feel sorry for the kids in your school. But I know I am wasting my words here - you are not going take advice from anyone. You are just going to plow ahead in complete ignorance of what sport is about.


Way to completely ignore my comment about how numerous other sports have cuts where they get rid of the kids who aren't good enough to contribute to the team. According to you all baseball and basketball teams should have 100 people on them. Do you honestly think I'm trying to build my ego? You think I began my obsession with this sport 10 years ago so that when I was 24 I could go coach somewhere and boss people around? I'm on this forum everyday trying to help people. I spend 20 hours a week coaching high school track for free because I know how hard it is to learn the vault without a coach. I was under the impression that I was going to offer help and guidance to a bunch of kids who were as over-the-top obsessed with pole vault as I was but didn't have anyone to teach them. Unfortunately I only have a couple vaulters out of about 12 that even show up to practice regularly, half of them give me attitude day in and day out, and I've heard kids call me "cracker" under their breath. I have an AD who hasn't bought us a single pole in 2 years because he is cheap and over half our school is on reduced lunch because the area is becoming impoverished so money for sports is just about gone. And now we can't even vault because Badminton has taken over the field house. So before you decide to call me ignorant because I don't coach in some fairy tale situation "down under" where you have a bunch of wide-eyed kids who want nothing more than to learn to vault, come coach here where you have barely any poles, ancient pole vault pits, no place to do pole runs, no gymnastics equipment to use, and kids who could care less about vaulting and some who could care less about what you tell them just because you're white.

Oh and in reference to your comment on where my focus should be... I do have an exercise science degree. I make numerous posts in the training forum on here. Believe me, I'm not advocating that we just stand around and growl at each other. I'd like to think there is some form of organization in my training plans.
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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:52 pm

If you have attitude problems and kids not coming to practice, then make cuts based on that.

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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby EIUvltr » Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:28 pm

I'd love to Becca but thats where my number 1 criteria comes into play

"1. 100% control over my pole vaulters. I want this to be like college. They show up and report to me and do whatever I say. If I don't like them or I don't think they are potential state qualifiers in the vault, then they're gone."

If we cut the kids with attitude problems we would have no team. We would seriously have 15 athletes tops. And the AD would never allow it because our school values quantity over quality. They want to be able to say they have X amount of people in sports and X amount of sports. The latter causes huge problems because the sports start to interfere with each other, I.E. badminton and track.
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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby altius » Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:35 pm

"some fairy tale situation "down under" where you have a bunch of wide-eyed kids who want nothing more than to learn to vault".

That statement alone confirms that you do not understand the realities of coaching the pole vault anywhere. But clearly you are not inclined to take notice of anything folk are telling you. I know I am wasting my time but I can tell you with absolute certainty that while sports science is a useful tool, you are not going anywhere if you do not understand that coaching is a people business. And that is like a mirror - if you dont like the kids they are certainly not going to like you - if they dont like you they are not going to come out for training - even the kids who would like to do it and may have the talent YOU are looking for will be discouraged from participating by those who do not like you. I suspect that you have already burned your bridges there so move on - but if you dont change your attitude you will have little or no success wherever you go.
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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:34 am

I didn't fall in love with the pole vault instantly. Maybe some kids do, but for a lot of kids, it has to be nurtured. I was really bad when I started, but I had coaches who were extremely dedicated and who encouraged me every step of the way. They were out there every Saturday and Sunday having extra practices, they told me about pole vault camp, they were out there every day in the summer, they talked me into running cross country (which, as a gymnast who sucked at running and had little cardiovascular fitness, helped tremendously). Somewhere along the way I guess I fell in love with it, because I showed up to practice all summer, I went to camp, I went to the summer meets, and eventually I found my way to vaultworld.com, learned of an indoor club, and started to figure out how to pole vault.

I know that I showed up for practice every day, and you're dealing with kids who aren't even doing that. You should talk to your head coach about safety, and explain why it is difficult for you to safely coach a kid who only shows up once every blue moon. Making them do other events is not the same as cutting them from the team.

But you're not going to get that college type atmosphere in a high school program. The closest you'll get is running a club, where the dedicated kids come to you, and that is hard to do without putting the time in at the local HS.

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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby EIUvltr » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:58 am

rainbowgirl28 wrote:I didn't fall in love with the pole vault instantly. Maybe some kids do, but for a lot of kids, it has to be nurtured. I was really bad when I started, but I had coaches who were extremely dedicated and who encouraged me every step of the way. They were out there every Saturday and Sunday having extra practices, they told me about pole vault camp, they were out there every day in the summer, they talked me into running cross country (which, as a gymnast who sucked at running and had little cardiovascular fitness, helped tremendously). Somewhere along the way I guess I fell in love with it, because I showed up to practice all summer, I went to camp, I went to the summer meets, and eventually I found my way to vaultworld.com, learned of an indoor club, and started to figure out how to pole vault.

I know that I showed up for practice every day, and you're dealing with kids who aren't even doing that. You should talk to your head coach about safety, and explain why it is difficult for you to safely coach a kid who only shows up once every blue moon. Making them do other events is not the same as cutting them from the team.

But you're not going to get that college type atmosphere in a high school program. The closest you'll get is running a club, where the dedicated kids come to you, and that is hard to do without putting the time in at the local HS.


I'm very aware of this Becca. This is why I don't expect the kids to immediately go above and beyond for the vault, but I do ask that they give me all they can for the few hours after school. But at the school I'm with we have kids who have jobs to help support their families, have to go home after school to be there for their little sisters,brothers, nieces and nephews, or just don't come. We can't cut the kids who don't show up to practice because we literally wouldn't have a team. I'd like to be able to train before school, or even after practice, but all of the schools athletic facilities are on complete lockdown with security cameras, guards, etc. Now you see why I can't stand coaching here. Its almost as if the people in charge don't want their athletes to improve.
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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby EIUvltr » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:09 am

altius wrote:"some fairy tale situation "down under" where you have a bunch of wide-eyed kids who want nothing more than to learn to vault".

That statement alone confirms that you do not understand the realities of coaching the pole vault anywhere. But clearly you are not inclined to take notice of anything folk are telling you. I know I am wasting my time but I can tell you with absolute certainty that while sports science is a useful tool, you are not going anywhere if you do not understand that coaching is a people business. And that is like a mirror - if you dont like the kids they are certainly not going to like you - if they dont like you they are not going to come out for training - even the kids who would like to do it and may have the talent YOU are looking for will be discouraged from participating by those who do not like you. I suspect that you have already burned your bridges there so move on - but if you dont change your attitude you will have little or no success wherever you go.


I think Becca is deleting my posts now. So I'll just say that its not that I don't like the kids. Its that the majority of the kids on my team are bad eggs which require a LOT of attention (babysitting) which takes away from the focus I can give the kids who actually want to be there. On top of this we have all the other problems I listed. Plus some of the best coaches I ever had were complete jerks, but good coaches nonetheless. I dont think liking your coach matters as long as you trust what he has to say.
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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby altius » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:25 am

"some of the best coaches I ever had were complete jerks, but good coaches nonetheless. I dont think liking your coach matters as long as you trust what he (SIC) has to say."

"Best coach -complete jerks" is an oxymoron and almost certainly not true in the world of pole vaulting. Perhaps you are thinking about other sports. Trust is built on sound relationships which begin with friendship and respect for each other, not on knowledge of the activity. Suggest you take a humanities course somewhere. By the way Becca doesnt need to delete any posts to protect me - I suspect she already knows that. Incidentally I think the "he" tells a story.

Just taking a needed break from the serious business of writing so I can keep this up as long as you can. Perhaps eventually you will begin to understand that you have a problem that needs to be addressed. It is not the 300lb badminton players you mentioned - it is simply you! Now I suspect the Becca will step in and delete my posts - pity - you might have learned something. Good night and good luck.
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden

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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby EIUvltr » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:35 am

altius wrote:"some of the best coaches I ever had were complete jerks, but good coaches nonetheless. I dont think liking your coach matters as long as you trust what he (SIC) has to say."

"Best coach -complete jerks" is an oxymoron and almost certainly not true in the world of pole vaulting. Perhaps you are thinking about other sports. Trust is built on sound relationships which begin with friendship and respect for each other, not on knowledge of the activity. Suggest you take a humanities course somewhere. By the way Becca doesnt need to delete any posts to protect me - I suspect she already knows that. Incidentally I think the "he" tells a story.

Just taking a needed break from the serious business of writing so I can keep this up as long as you can. Perhaps eventually you will begin to understand that you have a problem that needs to be addressed. It is not the 300lb badminton players you mentioned - it is simply you! Now I suspect the Becca will step in and delete my posts - pity - you might have learned something. Good night and good luck.


Ahh, I see, I didn't realize that your opinion was fact. No one ever told me that Alan Launder was infallible, my bad. So pole vaulting is different than "other sports" in that it requires a different type of coach, and a humanities class is going to teach me this eh? Good to know. Out of curiousity, is there some study you can cite here to back up what you are saying? Also, since you're in the business of handing out golden advice, could you tell me how you would coach at a school with a dozen poles, not a single kid who comes to practice regularly (for good reason or not), nowhere to vault, nowhere to do pole runs, no money, and no access to gymnastic equipment? Silly me, I was under the assumption that these things were inconveniencing me, but apparently I'm in a pole vault utopia and the only reason I'm not producing state champion after state champion is myself.
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rainbowgirl28
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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby rainbowgirl28 » Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:05 am

Hey! I have not deleted any posts in this thread.

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Re: Who needs a pole vault coach?

Unread postby EIUvltr » Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:30 am

K well one of mine didn't go thru, no big deal
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