Official Reno marks and NCAA qualifying thread

[rainbowgirl28]

I am starting a new thread for this, because the discussion thus far has been fragmented in a couple other threads.

Historically, the Pole Vault Summit was part of a meet hosted by Nevada. Over time, dates got shifted and the two events grew apart.

The NCAA requires that a meet have a certain number of events for it to count for qualifying. They view the Summit as only having two events, a men's pole vault and a women's pole vault.

When these events grew apart, the NCAA gave the Summit a waiver for the marks to count for qualifying.

3 years ago (I believe), the ball got dropped somewhere. I am not sure if the Summit management did not apply for the waiver, or if the NCAA just decided to stop accepting the marks. No one knew ahead of time that the marks would not count.

The NCAA rejected all marks that year from Reno and the Boston Indoor Games (another meet with a very limited number of events). Upon appeal from the coaches, the NCAA accepted the marks from that year, but made it clear they would not continue to do so in the future.

Fast forward to 2006, the Pole Vault Summit and the Silver State Open fall on the same weekend again. The Silver State Open decides to hold its pole vault competitions in the Hilton. All collegiate portions of the Summit are not part of the Silver State Open. Coach Fraley announces that the marks will count for qualifying. Dave Nielson attempted to discuss the issue with the NCAA committee and they refuse to give him a firm answer one way or the other.

The meet occurs and some outstanding performances are achieved in the collegiate divisions.

Marks are submitted, performance lists are posted, and everyone is left more confused than ever.

BYU submits Pratt's mark and is rejected.
Virginia Tech has not submitted Mondschein's mark yet.
Georgia submits Sarafian's mark and it is accepted.
The rest of the men I do not know.

I don't know who actually submitted on the women's side.
Rhian Jenks from North Carolina made the list.
This one is a head scratcher.. Brysun Stately of USC made the list, despite competing in an open group (not part of the Silver State Open) and not competing for her school. I am waiting for Brooks to call me back on that one.

I believe the coaches have a week to submit the marks.

There is a committee meeting next week which is supposed to discuss this.

My head hurts

Why is it harder to get the NCAA to accept a mark than the IAAF?

[saraf]

YAY my mark counted!! maybe the NCAA looked at my video and said, Yep, his can count. then they looked for brians vidoe and they couldn't find it. (i am just kidding) but i m happy that mine counts ... hopefully the rest of the marks will start to roll on in

[Mecham]

Hmm... I hope the other two vaulters will get there marks. Robbie wont jump 5.70 anymore....its a shame. he will jump HIGHER!! Might as well just mark it. lol

[Skyin' Brian]

BYU submits Pratt's mark and is rejected.
Virginia Tech has not submitted Mondschein's mark yet.
Georgia submits Sarafian's mark and it is accepted.
The rest of the men I do not know.

Pratt already auto'd so that doesnt matter,

It would be great if marks for Mondschein and Sarafian counted, but they knew going in that the marks very likely would not count so nobody really has reason to complain.

Congrats to all three on the big PR's though. Based on most of the Reno results it looks as if it is not very easy to set a PR there and hopefully they will improve on those marks very soon making this whole upcoming committee meeting pointless.

[VTechVaulter]

just an update

my head coach emailed 2 people at the top of the ncaa championships committee

the first said that the meet director of the silver state games failed to properly claim the summit as the site for the vault of its games, so they were not officially linked

haven't heard back from the second, so ill let u know what else i hear

[TB]

Why do I get the feeling that people in these high positions are just going to start blaming each other and we're not going to get a clear answer at all?

[rainbowgirl28]

YAY my mark counted!! maybe the NCAA looked at my video and said, Yep, his can count. then they looked for brians vidoe and they couldn't find it. (i am just kidding) but i m happy that mine counts ... hopefully the rest of the marks will start to roll on in

I wouldn't get too happy yet. They're going to meet about it next week, and I would imagine they will either accept all the marks, or reject them all.

[rainbowgirl28]

It would be great if marks for Mondschein and Sarafian counted, but they knew going in that the marks very likely would not count so nobody really has reason to complain.

That's not exactly a fair statement. Coach Fraley sent out a letter to all the Development staff in like November making a big deal about how since it was part of the Silver State Open, the marks would count.

[Skyin' Brian]

It would be great if marks for Mondschein and Sarafian counted, but they knew going in that the marks very likely would not count so nobody really has reason to complain.

That's not exactly a fair statement. Coach Fraley sent out a letter to all the Development staff in like November making a big deal about how since it was part of the Silver State Open, the marks would count.

maybe my wording was a little off, but based on history collegians should go in cautiously with regards to qualifying marks at reno(pratt excluded of course because of his already having the auto).

Fast forward to 2006, the Pole Vault Summit and the Silver State Open fall on the same weekend again. The Silver State Open decides to hold its pole vault competitions in the Hilton. All collegiate portions of the Summit are not part of the Silver State Open. Coach Fraley announces that the marks will count for qualifying. Dave Nielson attempted to discuss the issue with the NCAA committee and they refuse to give him a firm answer one way or the other.

but you just outlined why athletes should not have counted on national berths coming from this meet, and for the organizers of this meet to so strongly claim that the marks will count may have been a disservice to the college jumpers with changes of posting high qualifying marks. it may have been wiser for Fraley et al to promote the meet/clinic for what it is and not make such bold statements, but i can also understand wanting to attract the best collegiate field that they could(and they were successful in getting some great athletes together that performed extremely well). the mistake was trying to get around ncaa rules the sneaky way rather than the direct way that had worked in the past.

I find it funny how people are so quick to bash on the NCAA, but are so eager to get into their national meet.

who do you think pays to put that big meet on? pays for the travel of your teams to the meet? yep, the big bad NCAA. and they pay for it with money that they make off of the bowl games and the Final Four march madness crap.



either way though, good luck to Brian and Adam at NCAA's, no matter how you guys earn their ticket. i dont mean to come off as negative. in your situation i would be fighting for my mark to count as well, but no matter what the ncaa decides they cant take those personal bests away from you and a PR is way better than a qualifying standard any day of the year(but hopefully you will get both)

[rainbowgirl28]

Nobody was trying to be sneaky or get around the rules.

The NCAA said they would not accept marks from the Summit because it did not meet the requirement of having X number of events. The meet directors went out of their way to meet this requirement, and now the marks are still being rejected.

[Skyin' Brian]

Nobody was trying to be sneaky or get around the rules.

The NCAA said they would not accept marks from the Summit because it did not meet the requirement of having X number of events. The meet directors went out of their way to meet this requirement, and now the marks are still being rejected.

are we talking about the summit now or the silver state games? it ISa loophole, and therefore a bit sneaky. it seems naive to assume that after the ncaa would not tell them either way that since they thought the affiliating eith the other meet in reno that weekend was enough. it was clearly done just to get around the rules.

i would also argue that the organizers didnt go much out of their way, if they had gone out of their way they would have set up a 60m dash, high jump, long jump, shot put, etc. in the ballrooms along with the vault runways.

The NCAA just doesnt know how to deal with this oddball pv only meet, hopefully they eventually will.

but seriously becca, dont listen to me, im just jealous i didnt get to go to the summit this year

also, im kind of bored tonight and when im bored i bored i like to start pointless arguments.


for some reason i get the feeling that someday you will be helping make rules for stuff like this and athletes everywhere will be happier

goodnight

[SlickVT]

Skyin Brian:

The bottom line is this: The marks at Reno count for IAAF, USATF, NCAA D2, NCAA D3 and NAIA, but not D1.

I think we are all just saying that that is downright retarded.