5.01m Pole Vault WORLD RECORD - Guess who?

[bjvando]

i think part of the problem in the US is that there are too many coaches who have "their way" of vaulting which may or may not be the best way to teach it.

i absolutely agree- It is very easy to stick to your own style and not think outside of your own box. The only person in the world that can stick with thier own style right now is Petrov.

One downfall to having TOO MANY styles and trying too much is that the vaulter and coach will be confused. For a vaulter to go through a complete overhaul of their jump can be very difficult and time consuming, thus making coaches close minded to other styles and techniques.

As DJ said " the defenition of insane is doing the same thing year in year out and expecting different results"

" If it ain't broke don't fix it, if it is broke....... fix it"

ok my cheesy cliches are done.....

BJV

[dj]

bj...bruce

there are things we should be doing.. and it really isn't a talent issue..

i've just spent the day comparing 2 americans and 2 russians..

i did speed from 6 steps to take -off

approximate mid.. 6 steps

grip

maximum bend of the pole and how that compared to the vaulters back being flat to the runway during the swing.. that position tells me if the swing was performed properly.. and is timed from take-off…

and total time of the vault from take-off to maximum height of the body.

These were 4.60 to 4.80 jumps

Results

………….....…........….....…..6step.....…mid…...…..grip….…….max bend……...total vault..
Am 1...…4,55 vault…....1.41sec…...48?...........14-3…….……68sec…….…..1.56sec
Am 2….4.70vault….....…1.44sec…..49?...........14-4………….50sec………...1.47sec
Russ 1...4.70vault…..….1.40sec…..49?...........14-6………….57sec………...1.45sec
Russ 2...4.80vault….....1.47sec…..49?...........14-6………….56sec…….......1.47sec

t-mack...5.90vault…....…1.37sec…..54-8…….16-4…………50sec…………1.43sec

What do I surmise from this???

Do some math and tell me what you think…

Here is where I think we should focus…and there are "very specific" issues/techniques that should be the same for every vaulter… no if’s, and’s or butt’s…

1. the run/pole carry and how it is setup and accomplished to obtain speed and position..
2. the plant and how it effects the “shortening of the radius of the poleâ€Â

[Bruce Caldwell]

.

6step.....…mid…...…..grip….…….max bend……...total vault..
Am 1.4,55 vault…1.41sec…...48?...........14-3…….……68sec…….…..1.56sec
Am 2.4.70vault… 1.44sec…..49?...........14-4………….50sec………...1.47sec
Russ 1...4.70vault…1.40sec…..49?...........14-6………….57sec………...1.45sec
Russ 2...4.80vault…1.47sec…..49?...........14-6….56sec…….......1.47sec

Ok looks like
AM 1 did not jump at the take-off
AM 2 did how ever go with the pole
Russ 1 & 2 are holding 14'6" on a 14'6" pole???
Not sure about the grips if it is one of the ESSX poles they are 14'9" and 14'4" long
Not sure if you had similar films to look at and are they real time otherwise it is hard to measure?

SO lets hear what you have to say about the data and what it tells you DJ?

I have no problems telling a coach that swinging faster may be what appears what the vaulter needs but in reality they need to swing longer and go with the pole. You hear it all the time get up side down faster they say cause the pole is running away from you!!!

[Carolina Extreme]

Results
………….....…........….....…..6step.....…mid…...…..grip….…….max bend……...total vault..
Am 1...…4,55 vault…....1.41sec…...48?...........14-3…….……68sec…….…..1.56sec
Am 2….4.70vault….....…1.44sec…..49?...........14-4………….50sec………...1.47sec
Russ 1...4.70vault…..….1.40sec…..49?...........14-6………….57sec………...1.45sec
Russ 2...4.80vault….....1.47sec…..49?...........14-6………….56sec…….......1.47sec

dj

DJ, without video you make it tough. But I like this approach. It makes us use our noodles.

Am 1 is faster, jumping with a lower grip, with more bend, ...but has an overall slower vault from the time she leaves the ground than the highest vaulter shown, Russ 2. So Am 1 is loosing a lot of energy across her takeoff. If the mid of 48' is where it is supposed to be, and she is setting up her run well, I would guess that Am 1 is reaching, her hips are low and she is taking off under and muscling her way through the bottom part of the vault (forcing the bend). Basically she has a flat takeoff and trying to manufacture a vault instead of just letting it flow. Thus slowing up the entire vault from takeoff to maximum height. This vaulter may also be one that has the very bad habit of taking off under all the time.

But, it could also be as simple as having a mid that is to close and forcing her to get caught under. Am 1's speed is great and would indicate a possible mid in the 50' range. So either she is really short or perhaps her mid may need to be farther out.

Either way, Am 1 seems to have the tools to jump high. I believe with the right mid and an efficient vault her grip would go up and she may get into the 16ft club.

So DJ, how far off am I? Also curious about who Am 1 is? Love to see the video to study from that perspective as well.

Rusty

[dj]

bruce-rusty

this is awesome.. these are the kinds of "chats" we need to have on here..

just got home and can't totally answer now...

but bruce you may be right on the video speed.. i tried to only use clips from the same camera.. i'll check.. i know am 1 is very fast.. i have timed the am's and checked their mid's.. many times..

and rusty.. i don't know if there is a "wrong" ...i like how you came up with some ideas just based on the small data i gave... but one thing you said is a 180.. and it will be interesting to share your thought process..

later

after i have had time to ... read.. and think..

dj

[SlickVT]

DJ,

That is some good stuff. Makes the brain go a little.

Rusty- What is Chase doing this year?

[Carolina Extreme]

Rusty- What is Chase doing this year?

Working and vaulting. We can chat more by PM or email if you like.

Looking forward to jumping with and against you guys again this year. Please tell Bob and the others I said hello.

[Mitanker]

Would anyone know of any links to videos? I missed the live coverage.

[dj]

Rusty-bruce

Let me start by trying to explain why and how I use the data..

First.. the time for 6 steps……. Indicates potential based on speed.. but I also watch the last 6 steps to see if the athlete stretches and/or “turns overâ€Â

[bjvando]

these are all very valid points and 'important' to look at....

but i remember one thing that DJ told me...

"run like hell, plant like hell, swing like hell........... wave to the crowd."

you told that one day out at Marina HS in Huntington Beach DJ... with Kevin Magula..

Maybe its from a lack of knowledge but this all seems to be over analyzed.... there are defenite physics involved and all must be noted and rememberd, but theres a point to where over thinking will be non beneficial to the vaulter.....

i say this all with much respect to everyone

bjv <><

[dj]

bj

yes it is "over" analyzed.. terribly over analyzed and i don't go to anything near this when i'm coaching..

i coach .. run...plant ....swing..

i have been trying to make a point to get our coaches to look at the issues that matter.. and to understand that it is "simple' physics..

doesn't seem to be working...

dj

[Carolina Extreme]

[quote="dj"]...I also watch the last 6 steps to see if the athlete stretches and/or “turns overâ€Â