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I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts on the nature of a particular high bar drill.

The drill is performed just as the topic title says... One runs, jumps, and swings on the bar.

If you're unfamiliar with it, I do it here in this video starting at about 35 seconds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxKLAJxrrds

What I'd like to know is the following:
1. At what point in the athlete's flight should they catch the bar? (As in, how far away/how high should the bar be?)
2. Where should this be placed in a high bar workout?
3. How should the drill be 'finished'?
4. How fast should the athlete run?

powerplant42 wrote:I'm curious as to everyone's thoughts on the nature of a particular high bar drill.

The drill is performed just as the topic title says... One runs, jumps, and swings on the bar.

If you're unfamiliar with it, I do it here in this video starting at about 35 seconds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxKLAJxrrds

What I'd like to know is the following:
1. At what point in the athlete's flight should they catch the bar? (As in, how far away/how high should the bar be?)
2. Where should this be placed in a high bar workout?
3. How should the drill be 'finished'?
4. How fast should the athlete run?

I incorporate this drill myself and after discussing it with my coach and thinking about it...

1) You want to take off a little bit out so that you are forced to actually jump off the ground and reach.
2) Treat you high bar exercises as a progression format. Add in elements of the vault as you go along. Start with a takeoff with no swing, add the swing, and then add the finish.
3) The swing drill itself should be finished with the athlete simply swinging at high as he or she can with maximum momentum and a big drive knee.
4) The run is not an important element of this drill. A few short, quick steps is sufficient. The power of your swing in this drill should not be dictated by how you run. It should be dictated by how well you maintain your drive knee and how well you whip your trail leg.

1. I'm thinking the athlete should be just past the peak of their trajectory when they hit the bar...

This allows for some additional momentum for the trail-leg to work with (making up for the lack of run speed)... But I'm not sure about that.
2. Cool.
3. Could you elaborate? Do you think I'm finishing appropriately in my video?
4. Agreed.

PP, I like what you've been doing on the HB!

Did I miss this last Dec/08, or did you just post it now? I don't remember seeing this vid before.

In fact, I seem to recall a much more inferior whip drill.

I don't think you showed your run/jump/swing drill before.

First of all, great job on the whip drill. I think the mechanics are all there. You're keeping your lead knee up, and you're swinging "just about right". Now all you need to do is increase the tempo ... A LOT!

As for the run/jump/swing drill, I agree with AC for the most part.

You just need to jog into it (as you are), but your jump should be more vigorous - try to simulate a PV jump closer.

I disagree with your diagram where you propose that you catch the bar on your way down. Why? I think it's better to drive up and into the bar ... so violently that the bar will stop your upwards/forwards drive ... to kinda simulate the jolt that you feel when the pole hits the box ... and then you should use the FEEL of this impact as your mental queue to "attack the box" (which doesn't make much sense becuz there's no box there - but just pretend there is) ... and then whip that trail leg like hell!

Remember that BEFORE you catch the bar (just as before your pole hits the box), you need to get into that good forwards-leaning body posture ("finish the takeoff", "get into that elastic stretch", "jump to the split", "stretch to the C", blah, blah, blah) that's going to set you up for a vigorous downswing with your trail leg.

As you catch the bar, you can let your chest drive thru JUST A BIT, but if you pause too long by letting your chest drive COMPLETELY thru, then you're sunk ... then you're becoming too slow and too passive. Remember ... pop in ... pop out. Arch ... hollow.

Whenever you do these drills, always imagine how it should feel on the pole.

BTW, on your run/jump/swing drill, you're dropping your lead knee way too much. You probably know this, but don't have the strength to prevent it. That's normal at your age. You need to do lots of one/two-legged situps ... lead knee drives with your ankle strapped to a bungie ... leg lifts on HB (as you demo'd) ... and anything else you can think of to improve your lead leg strength. You need to make your muscles SUPER-STRONG so that your lead knee won't drop on this drill. If it's dropping on this simple drill ... when you're just jogging into it ... I can't see how you can possibly hold it up properly on the pole.

As far as elaborating on finishing the swing in #3, remember that it's the same as on the pole. Once you pass the chord, the upswing isn't important at all. You make-or-break 90% of your vault on your DOWNswing! After that, just coast to a stop the best you can ... as per the hinge drill. The IMPORTANT part is the downswing. Just focus on perfecting that ... the rest doesn't matter ... much.

Kirk

To simulate the vault as much as possible, i think you should leave the ground around 1-2ft behind the vertical plane. Hear me out.

In the vault, you may leave 5-10cm out in an ideal position, but that "high bar" in the vault (ie the pole) moves with you. In this drill, you are hit HARD by the pole and your hips will move immediately. In a vault, there is a period of finishing the take off that the pole moves with you before your hips move. I believe that around 30-60cm would allow you to finish your take off before swinging, and you wouldnt miss the chord of the pole when you do swing.

Also, raise the high bar as high as you can to build an upward intention on the plant. Just make sure you arent sacrificing horizontal speed while doing so! Probably a foot above your top hand would be good. You should grab the pole while still moving upward as well.

Everything IMHO... as long as you are thinking about relating everything in this drill to the vault, you will get something out of it.

Here's something to consider...

Would there be any sort of benefit of having solely horizontal momentum toward the bar?

Did I miss this last Dec/08, or did you just post it now? I don't remember seeing this vid before.

In fact, I seem to recall a much more inferior whip drill.

I don't think you showed your run/jump/swing drill before.

I sent it to you (with another video) twice... once by PM, once by e-mail!

By the way, the lead knee is no longer an issue for me.

Since I don't have any other video of the drill, could we perhaps tear up my own execution of it in the posted video?

I'm just thinking about it more now... It might help to ask the question of what direction the pole resists the forward momentum of the vaulter.

Does anyone feel like doing the vectors for us all?

I just got around to watching this... I think you are missing out big time by practicing the drill but only getting your ankles to the bar. Seems to me you would just be practicing "sitting in the bucket" when you vault.

Now I am pretty sure you're just not strong enough to do it. But if you're not even strong enough to do it from a swing, that is a bad sign and will limit your vault.

The muscles you are lacking are tricky to hit, but here are a few suggestions. One, is to have a spotter. Hang from the bar, then do a leg lift and bring your toes to the bar. Have the spotter put one hand on the back of your ankles (to keep your feet from falling away from the bar) and one hand on the lower back to help lift the hips.

If you are by yourself and don't have anyone to spot you, you should do "cheater" bubkas. See video here: http://www.polevaultpower.com/media/vid ... bubkas.mov
If you are not strong enough to do them like Dub is, put the back of you heel on the bar (the foot that is inside) and spot yourself on them. You can control the resistance, so over time work on decreasing it. Make sure to get the full range of motion.

Another drill that is not vault specific, but might help build strength to be able to do bubkas is a gymnastics drill called stalders: http://www.polevaultpower.com/media/vid ... alders.mov See how my hips get above my shoulders?

Until you do this: http://www.polevaultpower.com/media/vid ... bubkas.mov I don't think you are doing much good. You already have the hip flexor strength to lift your feet to your hands. I think if you keep doing this drill the way you are, you will just teach your body bad habits.

Are you able to do it properly on rings? http://www.polevaultpower.com/media/vid ... bubkas.mov

shouldn't you swing all the way up? in that vid you are bringing your legs to your hands. wouldn't it be better to complete the motion and extend into a pullover?

From my post above ...

First of all, great job on the whip drill. I think the mechanics are all there. You're keeping your lead knee up, and you're swinging "just about right". Now all you need to do is increase the tempo ... A LOT!

RG and Marshall, I realize that you think he's doing this drill wrong, but the motions are exactly correct. That's my whip drill! He just needs to speed them up! And he can't speed them up until he gets stronger.

Just as his leak knee is "no longer a problem", this whip drill will do wonders once he does it 10,000+ times!

Yes, I know, it's not a complete swing to an extension, but that's not the point. The drill is essentially "done" as soon as you pass the chord. It doesn't really matter what happens after that ... coasting, tucking, or inverting. I prefer tucking, as it speed up the body rotation, and gives you a real sense of POWER on the bar. Even after I did this drill 10,000+ times (I'm serious), I never once had a problem of "accidentally tucking" out of force of habit. Instead, I got a very quick inversion due SOLELY to my DOWNswing, and from there I was able to start my extension WITHOUT TUCKING.

Once you realize that the DOWNswing is the only important part of this drill, it should make more sense to you.

As counter-intuitive as this might sound to some of you, it's my own personal experience, and I highly recommend it.

p.s. PP, sorry about missing this vid earlier ... it must have fallen thru the cracks. Please comment on HOW you've been able to strengthen your lead knee so that you can keep it up now.

Kirk

KirkB wrote:Yes, I know, it's not a complete swing to an extension, but that's not the point. The drill is essentially "done" as soon as you pass the chord. It doesn't really matter what happens after that ... coasting, tucking, or inverting.

I disagree. I think if the point of the drill is the bottom part, then he should just coast after that and not practice bad habits. Since he has this drill down, in your opinion, then surely you agree with me that he ought to be spending a lot more time working on getting strong enough to get his hips above his shoulders.