bruised arms???

[Robert schmitt]

Last winter I had a long discussion with a well-respected vault coach out here in WA who was teaching a coaching seminar. We spent hours over some beverages talking about getting the bruise on your bottom forearm from the pole when you swing up side down. I never gave it much thought before, I always though it was kind of a good thing (a sign you were swinging back well). He was saying it was bad form to get the bruise, that you should be initiating your turn earlier to clear the pole with your bottom arm. After many month of sleepless nights contemplating this quandary. I’ve notice I get one when I vault on really small poles that don’t return anything on top. Ex 14’ 175 (I’m 190-195) that I grip down 2’ on and three step. When I’m on larger poles from 6-7 lefts my forearm doesn’t bruise I think this is because the pole actually is able to return some energy and I’m not having to leverage myself so much with me bottom arm as I pull the pole bye. In some instances I think the bruise comes from swinging up to fast and getting out of time with the pole/getting in front of the pole. Anyway, he was firm that the only reason you get the mark was because of not initiating your turn soon enough. That may be one of the reasons but it doesn’t seem to be the only reason.

What are you opinions is it good, bad, or indifferent to be getting the bruise on your forearm? I would esp. like to here from the Jonesboro vaulters.

[rainbowgirl28]

I know exactly who you were talking to! I haven't had any other coaches who were too concerned about it though.

Today I got a bruise on my right arm for the first time (I am vaulting lefty for awhile). I was so proud

[Robert schmitt]

I always used to be proud of it too. It was a conversation piece

[rainbowgirl28]

Hehe I am proud because I have a hard time getting my elbow inside the pole when I am doing straight pole drills normally... but vaulting lefty I seem to get it in a lot easier. Go figure!

[lonestar]

I have to disagree on the turning too late thing. In my opinion, you should delay the turn as much as possible, because turning too early generally causes flagging out towards the bar. Delaying the turn allows you to swing farther and initiate pulling up the pole in my opinion.

On the other hand, some of my girls had a problem getting turned and were clearing bars on their backs (old-school Melissa Price style), which wasn't great either. We've fixed that though!

I think the bruise occurs because you're swinging back properly and breaking the left arm in when you should, and it's a good thing. A lot of elite vaulters wore wristbands because of this, and correct me if I'm wrong Lon and Dub, but I think I remember seeing Earl and Kellie Suttle wearing them? Not positive.

Kris

[dubjones]

Yeah, Kellie wears a forearm pad, which we sell. I wouldn't call the pole hitting there either bad or good. What I read in an earlier post is that there is an idea of leverage coming from the left arm. This is a bad, bad, thing. All the pressure should be on the right, or top, hand, this late in a jump. Placing pressure, or trying to pull, push, or leverage with the left will take pressure off the top of the pole, allowing it to unbend, and causing the jumper to "miss" part of the pole.
The way Earl teaches this part is to simply try to get to "right hand right hip". This keeps the bent pole nearest to the center of mass of the vaulter. This is done while the vaulter "rubbs chalk" on the front of his or her thighs while moving to, and through "right hand right hip".
What may be happening on the smaller poles, (as posted eariler) is they simply cannot bend around your arm, when they get bigger angles increase , and it is allowed to miss the forearm.
Overall this isn't a real polevaulting "problem". We spend very little time working with any of this here in Jonesboro. The idea is if the bottom of your jump is working well, the top parts will happen. Even if a jumper is having trouble with the top part of his or her jump, they are easily changed if the rest of the jump is working well.
Hopin' I help

[lonpvh]

Good explination Dub!!!! Pulling on that left arm will make you miss the ride because of the pole unbending too early. You may get way upsidedown, but you will almost always hit the bar on the way down. Looks impressive though, big hip height, but the feet usually miss the bar by an inch and the chest doesn't quite make it around.

Becca, contrary to 95% of the coaches out there, you should never tuck your arm on the inside of the pole, even for straight pole drills. This makes you too bottom arm dominated and stops you from finishing the run off the ground. If you look at the good ones, the bottom arm's elboe is pointing slightly outside the pole, this is because of a little different alignment at the plant than most people teach. We will teach you when you come in Christmas. LON

[lonestar]

contrary to 95% of the coaches out there, you should never tuck your arm on the inside of the pole, even for straight pole drills. This makes you too bottom arm dominated and stops you from finishing the run off the ground. If you look at the good ones, the bottom arm's elboe is pointing slightly outside the pole, this is because of a little different alignment at the plant than most people teach.

Lon, you've piqued my curiosity here: I can see how the jump would be bottom-arm dominated and cause a vaulter to pull themselves upside down as opposed to swinging upside down. What is stopping them from finishing the run off the ground? Is it a posture or shoulder-alignment problem? How do you teach someone to swing behind the pole with their elbow outside on straight pole drills without getting stuck if the elbow is outside, or don't y'all do that? What is different about y'alls alignment theory at the plant? I'm really interested in this and not arguing with you, just hungry for info and re-thinking my program.

Thanks!

Kris

[lonpvh]

Lord here we go, I'm gonna ask Will for some help. If you ask me one of the more important things in pole vaulting is finishing the run off the ground once the pole hits the back of the box. Your only able to do this if the pole is lined up a little over the right shoulder for a right handed pole vaulter. If its lined up over the head, then the scapula limits you from taking that extra step into the plant. The left arm goes up and through the pole with the elboe pointing a little outside and the head actually slides into a slot created by it. This creates a situation where you have to get on the top hand to swing, more of a push or row like some people like to use, and not a pull which is what started this discussion. Tell you what, send me an email and I'll call you, this is a complicated discussion.

Straight pole drills should be use for alignment not swinging. The actual move on a straight pole is to pull the right hand with pressure straight down the pole (angle changes if the pole is bending) to the right hip. The arm on the inside teaches you to pull with the bottom arm which gives you a nasty buise (HA HA), which ends up translating into pulling in a real jump. Maybe I'll write a thread that explains keeping your center of mass behing the pole. Thats what pole vaulting really is. Lon

[rainbowgirl28]

Hmmm I don't feel like I am pulling in with my bottom arm when I do the straight pole drills. I focus on having a tall takeoff and down pressuring with a straight top arm. I don't try to pull or push with the bottom arm... but I try to angle the elbow in so that the pole does not get stuck in my armpit and I can swing up all the way.

So maybe I am wrong... guesss you'll have to watch me sometime and see

[Robert schmitt]

lonestar wrote:

because turning too early generally causes flagging out towards the bar

That is exactly what happens when I try to vault that way so I deep 6 the whole idea. But the Idea of the bruise bugged the hell out of me because like I said this was a pretty well respected coach out here who jumped high back in college and was teaching the valut at this seminar.

dub wrote:

Placing pressure, or trying to pull, push, or leverage with the left will take pressure off the top of the pole, allowing it to unbend, and causing the jumper to "miss" part of the pole

To be honest with you it dosn't feel like I'm doing anything different but when I'm on that pole from three lefts I really notice the pressure it puts on forarm and I'll get a scab (beyond bruise) from the pole. When I'm on a bigger stick I feel the pole on the same part of my arm but it is not as"hard" and I will barely get a bruise from jumping all day. So I always contributed it to the pole not being able to return a lot of energy at the top of the vault. duno