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What kind of excersises do you do to really work your legs not like your calfs or shins but more of your upper legs like thighs area?

squats!!! remember... talk's cheap... squat deep! (anyone care to argue this? im interested in other opinions.)

also, RDL's (Russian Dead Lifts... google it.) and plyometrics increase hamstring and quad strength a ton. Also, we pull sleds a lot to work on that stuff. And running stadium stairs.... and there's obviously lots of other exercises.

RDL stands for Romanian Deadlift, this can make a huge difference when it comes to technique. Yes jcoover, squats are the best, and plyometrics and other leg work would be fantastic at building the leg strength and lean mass that athletes, specifically vaulters, are looking for. Also, this falls under the category of plyometrics, but I thought I'd mention it anyway, those leg loaders and other mechanisms that allow for resisted jumps are halpful.

jcoover wrote:squats!!! remember... talk's cheap... squat deep! (anyone care to argue this? im interested in other opinions.)

depends on your definition of "deep". After a certian point, all that weight and torque on your knees starts to damage your cartillage and meniscus in the joint. Yes, squatting deeper will work your muscles better and get them stronger, but you will also sacrafice you knee joints. Personally, I'd rather keep my knees as healthy as possible (I already have knee joint damage, and I really don't want to make it worse)

So, "deep" for me might not be "deep" to you (or to my coach apparently ). But, yeah, squats are a great way to work your quads and hamstrings, if done correctly

theczar wrote:

jcoover wrote:squats!!! remember... talk's cheap... squat deep! (anyone care to argue this? im interested in other opinions.)

depends on your definition of "deep". After a certian point, all that weight and torque on your knees starts to damage your cartillage and meniscus in the joint. Yes, squatting deeper will work your muscles better and get them stronger, but you will also sacrafice you knee joints. Personally, I'd rather keep my knees as healthy as possible (I already have knee joint damage, and I really don't want to make it worse)

So, "deep" for me might not be "deep" to you (or to my coach apparently ). But, yeah, squats are a great way to work your quads and hamstrings, if done correctly

This is not entirely true. As long as you keep good posture, there will be less stress put on the knee joint. The more you lean over foward, the more stress put on the knees. I know a 40 year old powerlifter who can still squat 800 lbs. plus simply due to very good posture and his respect for the moment arm theory of the squat.

And don't forget to do hip flexion exercises! Squats are great for knee extensors and hip extensors, but don't forget about the knee flexors ( Rectus Femoris is the only Quadricep muscle that acts over both joints) or you will be cursed with tiny strides

The way Bubba has me doing my squats is what he calls a "bench squat". I stick the bench under the smith machine and only go down to where my butt barely touches the bench and then back up. Lunges are also supposed to be good. I can't do them however cause A. I probably do them wrong ....so B. they hurt my 54 year old knees. Later......Mike

I heard once that during a good squat you should be able to lift your toes off the ground and see directly above you when bend your neck. Just thought it throw that in there.

The only squats i do are low weight- going deep. I dont max out going deep, because i probably wouldnt be able to keep my posture.

EIUvltr wrote:

theczar wrote:

jcoover wrote:squats!!! remember... talk's cheap... squat deep! (anyone care to argue this? im interested in other opinions.)

depends on your definition of "deep". After a certian point, all that weight and torque on your knees starts to damage your cartillage and meniscus in the joint. Yes, squatting deeper will work your muscles better and get them stronger, but you will also sacrafice you knee joints. Personally, I'd rather keep my knees as healthy as possible (I already have knee joint damage, and I really don't want to make it worse)

So, "deep" for me might not be "deep" to you (or to my coach apparently ). But, yeah, squats are a great way to work your quads and hamstrings, if done correctly

This is not entirely true. As long as you keep good posture, there will be less stress put on the knee joint. The more you lean over foward, the more stress put on the knees. I know a 40 year old powerlifter who can still squat 800 lbs. plus simply due to very good posture and his respect for the moment arm theory of the squat.

I understand that doing it correctly will greatly decrease the potential injury, my point was just to be careful because the majority of people I know (unfortunately myself included) don't do squat correctly. Make sure you have someone there that knows how to do it right, so they can help you avoid a nasty knee problem

souleman wrote:The way Bubba has me doing my squats is what he calls a "bench squat". I stick the bench under the smith machine and only go down to where my butt barely touches the bench and then back up. Lunges are also supposed to be good. I can't do them however cause A. I probably do them wrong ....so B. they hurt my 54 year old knees. Later......Mike

Bench squats are seriously one of the worst ideas ever. An injury waiting to happen because they are hard to do properly. It's too easy to touch the bench too hard and have the weight compress your back.

If you need to feel something on the way down, tie a bungee or jump rope to the squat rack and set it at the height you need.

EIUvltr wrote:

theczar wrote:

jcoover wrote:squats!!! remember... talk's cheap... squat deep! (anyone care to argue this? im interested in other opinions.)

depends on your definition of "deep". After a certian point, all that weight and torque on your knees starts to damage your cartillage and meniscus in the joint. Yes, squatting deeper will work your muscles better and get them stronger, but you will also sacrafice you knee joints. Personally, I'd rather keep my knees as healthy as possible (I already have knee joint damage, and I really don't want to make it worse)

So, "deep" for me might not be "deep" to you (or to my coach apparently ). But, yeah, squats are a great way to work your quads and hamstrings, if done correctly

This is not entirely true. As long as you keep good posture, there will be less stress put on the knee joint. The more you lean over foward, the more stress put on the knees. I know a 40 year old powerlifter who can still squat 800 lbs. plus simply due to very good posture and his respect for the moment arm theory of the squat.

And don't forget to do hip flexion exercises! Squats are great for knee extensors and hip extensors, but don't forget about the knee flexors ( Rectus Femoris is the only Quadricep muscle that acts over both joints) or you will be cursed with tiny strides

Not going lower than parallel is an old rule of thought that has little proof. In all honesty, mecahnically, you knee is at the worst stress when it is at 90 degrees, as the moment arm on the femur is the longest.

Anything deeper than that and the moment arm (perpendicular distance between the center of mass and the axis of rotation) starts to decrease. ...and in addition, you knee is supposed to bend that way, as long as you do it with the correct posture, you're plenty safe.

As for "don't let your knees go in front of your toes" ... I don't like that either. What good does it do to displace your hips that far behind you and put all of the mass you are trying to lift away from your own connection of force to the groun (i.e. your feet)????


In relating to another post, squatting in a smith machine does nothing for your neural control of your lower body. With the exception of rehabilitating a stroke victim who may be experiencing hemiplegia (paralysis of only one side of the body), why not teach someone how to balance?

The take home message, we should not be curtailing a workout away from the full range of motion, this causes us to get away from working the joint the real way it's supposed to work.

Hopefully someone agrees with me on this one...

Becca, I said "barely" touch the bench and even as old as I am, 90 pounds ain't gonna squash me. The legs never reach 90 degrees or more which protects the knees. The whole idea behind any of what I do is lighter weights and more reps. Reason being, (take my bench squats for example) my bones, tendons and joints never "see" more than 90 pounds which is around 50% to 55% of my one time max. The secret comes from doing 10, then resting at least 2 minutes, then 8 and resting 2 minutes and then 6. The cumulative effect in doing lifting this way is that the muscles "see" 2160 pounds through the exercise while the parts that can get hurt by big weights only "see" 90. The reason for the break in between reps is that the body (especially in, and required for, seniors) can recoup 95% of the energy expended in those 2 minutes of rest. Younger folks can take shorter rests between sets. The rest is what allows the lifter the energy to get through the next set. It's when you're dragging and tired that you get hurt lifting. So, if you ask my bones and joints and tendons how much I can bench squat, they will tell you 90 lbs. Ask my muscles, they will tell you a ton! Later...Mike

Souleman, heres an idea we used to do at my old high school.
hopefully you have a full squat area, just have someone look at you when you squat the bar, and put the safety bars that run to the side up just high enough to where you want to be (90 degrees). Then you have something to aim for everytime you go down.

Lax PV... i understand that at 90 degrees your knees are at maximum pressure, and going farther than that will hurt them less. But what about coming back up?? If your knees are bent more than parellel, picture this in your mind, it is up to all the muscles in your knee to get the weight at least to 90 degrees, where more your quads and hamstrings come in. Its ok to strengthen your knee muscles and tendons like that, but dont do it with high weight or you will blow something.