What are your personal records?:Weight lifting

[Decamouse]

Getting strong as possible and fast - is a great concept - but is it really get as strong and as fast without undermining technique and the work you need to do in those areas. Also the fine line between get stronger and no longer getting faster - or even slower - less elastic, less explosive -- top arm still has to be able to reach real high and stretch throughout first part of take-off -- somebody at a world class level has figured out some balance to this or the coach has --

[starkey480]

wow i never said not to work on technique. I dont know where you are getting the idea that if you train hard and get really strong you cant work on technique To actually jump HIGH, i believe that you need BOTH. I never said having good technique was not important. Do you think bubka got all of his power from doing nothing but jumping and pole vault drills??
And im not saying train to be a shotputter essx. Im saying to get strong and lean.

[tsorenson]

I think that both sides of the argument have valid points here.

Achtung and Altius are saying that most young athletes would be better served by spending as much time as possible on technique development, which I agree with strongly. High school vaulters certainly are those most likely to be searching this forum for training advice, and should be aware that the greatest gains in height (especially at the early stages of PV development) will be had by working on technique. I don't ever dedicate any of our short practice time to weight training, but I do recommend my kids take a weight-training class during school hours where they can build strength without cutting into practice. I'm not going to argue which lifts should be done, but certainly some lifts to strengthen the lower back and hamstrings should be part of the routine for injury prevention. Overall, my opinion is that lifting weights is a great way to get better at lifting weights...PV drills are a great way to get better at pole vaulting. If you have to choose one or the other, it's not really a choice at all. If you have kids who are motivated enough to to their weight training on their own time, then it is great, as long as they don't get bulky! As your technique improves, your gains from technique work will begin to taper off, so then intense weight/speed training can really become a larger percentage of your potential gains.

Collegiate and post-collegiate athletes have a pretty comprehensive practice schedule which usually consists of 4+ hours per day, which leaves plenty of time for technique AND weight work, usually gymnastics and other stuff thrown in as well. In college, we had plenty of practice time, so once in a while we would play ultimate frisbee or go mountain biking, or huck gainers off the 3m springboard or do some underwater vaulting. It's all a matter of how much time and resources are available to you...so prioritize based on that!

my priorities for PV improvement at the beginner/intermediate level:
1. Plant/takeoff drills (including walking plants and stiff pole drills/vaulting)
2. Pole runs (including 20/20's)
3. Gymnastics (rings, highbar, rope)
4. Plyometrics
5. Study video of yourself and elite vaulters
6. Weight training (especially lower back)

[starkey480]

Oh if we are talking about high schoolers it is a little bit different. I was talking more about collegiate. I dont think high schoolers should be doing any crazy heavy lifting because we are still growing. I lift but its more for coordination rather than doing heavy squats and such. However, once you are ready to start taking pole vaulting seriously like in college i think they should be training their butts off, as long as like you said, they arn't getting too bulky. Its all about strength to body weight ratio.

[Decamouse]

"some balance" was a key point - you can get wrapped up in "increasing" the record for various lifts and lose focus on the true goal. Example is to do as a multi-eventer - stronger in bench, etc. throw further in the shot - score less in the decathlon - total score is what counts - the balance to achive the goal - in PV is to vault high - train accordingly -- not saying do not lift or do not get stronger - some of us just try and slow the downward spiral

[altius]

Well 480 I can see you are beginning to feel your oats! So heres thing - just a little challenge for you. Take another look at the Lovell twins on the dvd - aged just 18, both 5'6 and 140 jumping 16'5 on 15'180/185 spirits. You can see from the video that they are physical wimps -definitely did not include weight training in their program -did not have time/ priorities and all that - but not bad technically, especially Tom with a nice free take off.

Now I dont know what your pr is now but I know that you are in pretty well a perfect training environment - so lets see how long it takes you to jump 16'5 plus - send me the film when you do. Good luck.

[IAmTheWalrus]

So I've been curious about this for a little while. Here is a video of me jumping over 5.05m (it's practice, but there just aren't that many meets over the summer), anyway, the point is I weigh 170-175 and I'm holding about 14'10 on a 16' 180. Clearly a much smaller weight differential than the Lovell twins. Does that mean that I have mastered elements of the swing better than they have? That my takeoff is worse? Both? I understand the desire to get onto a pole well above my own weight, and it is something I always strive for, but at the same time, I have not been putting enough energy into the takeoff to get onto the next pole from my longer run. Anyway, that's not really the subject of this post, nor do I want my video reviewed, I'm just curious why a pole that is not even close to 40lbs over my bodyweight can get me considerably over my hand hold, particularly since I am a coach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LQnWVzmLic

[VaultPurple]

looks to me like you just lose a lot off the top of your vault from throwing your head back and getting you in an awkward position that can not come off the top as straight as you should.

[starkey480]

Alan- What are the twins jumping now? They must be jumping higher now than when you made that dvd. And what age did they start?

[altius]

That was the last time either of them ever jumped!!! To understand why you have to know there are no scholarships in OZ and Uni is tough if you want to do well academically. They both have and now enjoy excellent careers. In the USA the dread day for most is delayed until the end of college - here it is end of high school unless you can make the jump into the Australian elite squad. That is not easy - Mark Stewart had a boy who jumped 5.55 as a junior did not make it.

[Bruce Caldwell]

wow i never said not to work on technique. I dont know where you are getting the idea that if you train hard and get really strong you cant work on technique To actually jump HIGH, i believe that you need BOTH. I never said having good technique was not important. Do you think bubka got all of his power from doing nothing but jumping and pole vault drills??
And im not saying train to be a shotputter essx. Im saying to get strong and lean.

Athletes from other countries do nto have the luxury of obtaining poles in .1 flex numbers like Americans can! And as a result they all have to start out on stiffer than their weight poles. To jump they had to swing and the swing is what they perfected.
BUbka was not as strong in the beginning as he was after he jumped 6 meters. As time went on he did get stronger but only after he had the timing and the technique. There is of course more than one way to jump Rice vaulter and a former KU vaulter have proven that! I feel that in the end you are correct you need both but the technique and the finese has its priority!
Bruce

[starkey480]

dang... thats sad that they didnt get to keep vaulting.... you cant even just do it on your own without being part of a team????