No distance

A forum to discuss overall training techniques, nutrition, injuries, etc. Discussion of actual pole vault technique should go in the Technique forum.
User avatar
lonestar
PV Lover
Posts: 1475
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2002 12:23 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Contact:

No distance

Unread postby lonestar » Sat Jul 24, 2010 5:56 pm

From Russian Training Methods: Developing Speed and Flexibility
by Arkady Vorobiev (1968)


http://ditillo2.blogspot.com/2010/07/de ... rkady.html


"The long distance runner has more endurance than the weightlifter if there are long distances to be run. But he has poorer conditioning than the weightlifter if there are weights to be lifted. The muscle-work of the long distance runner is successful only with a very large oxygen supply. The effort the lifter spends is on the contrary so great that he is never able to maintain a complete oxygen supply. His muscles can work with an insufficient oxygen supply. In the first category the heart and vascular system are influenced as well as the breathing organs. In the other groups the emphasis is on the motion apparatus. As the research of M. I. Majsuradse shows, the marked conditioning training of the long distance runners has a NEGATIVE EFFECT on the development of strength. Conversely, the strength training of weightlifters is not good for long distance runners. Weightlifters should be careful in each training session which signifies long-enduring work with low intensity."

Assuming pole vaulters are ANAEROBIC athletes, much like weightlifters.
Any scientist who can't explain to an eight-year-old what he is doing is a charlatan. K Vonnegut

User avatar
vault3rb0y
PV Rock Star
Posts: 2458
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:59 pm
Expertise: College Coach, Former College Vaulter
Lifetime Best: 5.14m
Location: Still Searching
Contact:

Re: No distance

Unread postby vault3rb0y » Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:10 pm

Correct, but i feel that you are jumping to a conclusion in assuming NO distance running should be had.

In terms of training cycles, it could be argued that by the SAID principle that the best way to get better at the pole is to POLE VAULT. However, we obviously recognize that there are many aspects to pole vaulting that require individual training, ie gymnastics, sprints, weightlifting.

In order to maximize the effectiveness of these gymnastics, sprinting, and weightlifting workouts, it is necessary to develop athletes with the highest levels of fitness and the lowest required recovery times for these exercises. aerobic activity has many benefits for a pole vaulter in this sense, as it increases vascularization, metabolism, and decreases recovery time for anaerobic activities to a certain extent.

Now obviously, in order to get better at sprinting you should sprint. In order to get better at lifting you should lift. This does not mean that aerobic activities cannot have benefits in these areas as well. Our bodies will adapt to whatever stresses we put on it, and IN MODERATION, the fact that aerobic running increases our cardiovascular health and our metabolism can actually INCREASE the effectiveness of our sprinting/lifting/vaulting workouts. However if you do too much aerobic workouts, our bodies over-adapt to the long distance running, and begin weakening our effectiveness at lifting/sprinting in order to increase the effectiveness of our long distance running (ie loss of muscle mass).

Purely long distance running in order to train for the pole vault is dumb, everyone knows that. In fact, a gifted athlete does not NEED to long distance run in order to get better throughout a season. However, if our fitness level is increased through long distance runs ALONG WITH lifting, sprinting, vaulting.... our recovery time for these other workouts is reduced and the workouts we do are much more quality (in theory) later in the year. This comes in handy later in the season when the training volume decreases because we are able to recover much more fully after a workout, and in theory we should be able to handle more volume later in the season (more vaults in a practice/meet) than someone with less conditioning.

I don't know the guideline for how MUCH distance running is acceptable in pre-season training, however we do not go beyond 4 miles at 8min/mile pace 3 times a week throughout summer/preseason. We also do 80% sprints and hill workouts along with our distance running to prevent substantial explosive muscle fiber loss. I definitely agree that running 20-30miles a week holds counter-productive results for a pole vaulter, but I also feel that distance running is essential in order to maximize the effectiveness of other workouts throughout the season.
The greater the challenge, the more glorious the triumph

baggettpv
PV Master
Posts: 707
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2002 2:04 pm
Location: Oregon City, Or
Contact:

Re: No distance

Unread postby baggettpv » Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:38 pm

I agree with this.

Rick Baggett
WSTC
Good coaching is good teaching.

User avatar
vault3rb0y
PV Rock Star
Posts: 2458
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:59 pm
Expertise: College Coach, Former College Vaulter
Lifetime Best: 5.14m
Location: Still Searching
Contact:

Re: No distance

Unread postby vault3rb0y » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:27 am

You agree with no distance or distance in conjunction with other training?

I admit I'm still a youngster learning only by the science and by how my own personal coaches teach me. So far it seems obvious that i learn twice as much by observing as I do by reading the literature, and that the further i get into the literature, the most it confirms what most coaches already know by experience. So I would love to hear what anyone else who has experience in training periodization and cycles has to say.
The greater the challenge, the more glorious the triumph

xjoeyx
PV Whiz
Posts: 183
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:58 pm
Expertise: Current College Vaulter, BIG FAN
Favorite Vaulter: Toby Stevenson, Jeff Hartwig
Location: Boring Springs, NC

Re: No distance

Unread postby xjoeyx » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:10 am

honestly, i didn't run any distance last year. i think the most i did was maybe a mile run maybe once a week. and my legs had no strength to them. so when i started working out on the track and doing sprint workouts, i ended up getting shin splints. Honestly i can run on that same track now with no problem. and that's after running distances and doing workouts now. I think some distance running is a good base, but i wouldn't suggest running 5+ miles a day or running xc if you're serious about it. Honestly last year if I would've known what i know now, I would have maybe done a 2-3 runs a week of maybe 2-3 miles before i started my running workouts on the track. But that's just my .02
"You can have confidence without success but you can't have success without confidence"

EIUvltr
PV Pro
Posts: 291
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:38 pm
Expertise: Ex-collegiate pole vaulter B.S. Exercise Science ACSM personal trainer
Location: Homewood, IL
Contact:

Re: No distance

Unread postby EIUvltr » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:44 pm

distance is "okay" in the off-season, but don't push it. You can almost consider it active recovery from the competitive season. It definitely should not be used in conjunction with any other phases of training.
"If he dies, he dies"

User avatar
lonestar
PV Lover
Posts: 1475
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2002 12:23 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Contact:

Re: No distance

Unread postby lonestar » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:09 pm

"It's not daily increase but daily decrease...hack away the unessential!"

Bruce Lee
Any scientist who can't explain to an eight-year-old what he is doing is a charlatan. K Vonnegut

User avatar
coachjvinson
PV Whiz
Posts: 239
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:58 pm
Expertise: I have never recognized the concept of limits-I think an athlete who accepts limits is dead-Bubka
Lifetime Best: 0
World Record Holder?: Renaud Lavillenie
Favorite Vaulter: COOP 4.55m and Mondo

Re: No distance

Unread postby coachjvinson » Sun May 19, 2013 3:19 am

CNS/ATP...
PURSUITOF2016

EIUvltr
PV Pro
Posts: 291
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:38 pm
Expertise: Ex-collegiate pole vaulter B.S. Exercise Science ACSM personal trainer
Location: Homewood, IL
Contact:

Re: No distance

Unread postby EIUvltr » Mon May 20, 2013 4:13 pm

Distance running is detrimental, but looking at it from a purely substrate perspective leads to a lot of problems. Just don't run distance. Your cardiovascular system will get sufficiently worked via vaulting, sprints and intervals.
"If he dies, he dies"

User avatar
altius
PV Rock Star
Posts: 2425
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:27 am
Location: adelaide, australia
Contact:

Re: No distance

Unread postby altius » Mon May 20, 2013 7:48 pm

Absolutely concur -distance running is irrelevant to pole vaulting.
Its what you learn after you know it all that counts. John Wooden


Return to “Pole Vault - Training”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests