Limit Opening Heights in High School/Youth

[rainbowgirl28]

I went to a meet yesterday with a coach who has yet to take the mandatory coaching certification in our state (and they've had PV now for three years). He is completely clueless about PV and doesn't really do anything in the way of coaching, just gives kids a pole. He had 4 boys trying to pole vault in the meet yesterday who had never vaulted before. We did boys and girls together and several of these boys came in at 5' and NH'd.

Do you think this coach would have held them out of the meet if the mandatory opening height was 9'?

NO. He still would have jumped them and they would have been MORE likely to hurt themselves.

[Darth Vaulter]

I question the basic premise here. How exactly will increasing opening heights increase safety? Every pole vault injury I've witnessed or heard of involved a girl who could easily clear 7 feet or a boy who could easily clear 9 feet. Improving safety is a coaching issue that can't be avoided by adopting rules requiring helmets or landing in a certain place or setting arbitrary starting heights. I've coached kids from first touch of a pole to the State Meet medal podium and that's an incredible feeling, but the most inspiring vaulter I ever coached was a girl who worked hard (and safely) at every practice for 4 years and had a lifetime PR of 7' 3". Her 3rd place ribbon in the JV Conference Meet as a senior was the highlight of her athletic career and something that she would've been denied by this rule.

[dj]

hey

he may not have held them out if it was 9 ... but this just verifies my point.

This is absolutely ridiculous… humiliating your athlete AND creating "backward" thinking.

By setting the standards low, and telling the athlete you don't have to prepare, you don't have to practice!!! You DO NOT have to have ANY knowledge, tools or skills!!!!

I as the coach am not concerned about you, just the points.. it's you that can get hurt, it's you that can get humiliated.. I, the coach, will point the finger at the you… he needs to be Axx whipped

…………And the ones setting the ridiculous low standards, 99.9% according to your data since I'm the only one that "thinks" this way!!!

Come on……..

So I'm going to give my daughter the keys to my "Beamer" when she is 14.. and say go, see you later!!!!

Point-counter point: At least if the bar was at 9 feet the kid is 3 and out… and either go practice, if he/she truly desires and has the talent to be in the event.

My junior high school district meet (1961) started at 7 feet and was won with 9-3.. landing in a sand pit.. ???

Maybe it's not idiot coaches "thinking" that we need to change bit go back to no pit until the bar is at 10 feet!!!

Please remember I (we) are trying to improve the event and save lives…

That is why I'm so adamant about this… really check the statistics and from every angle… not just from "every athlete has to be allowed to pole vault"… even if the bar is one foot!!!

This system is what's wrong with the entire educational system and now that we have had a couple of generations "live" the system, they will perpetuate the system "thinking" they are doing it right…

We have taken "work for your success" out of the equation… including using the excuse that all great athletes used drugs..

Lack of preparation means higher levels of falure and more chance to injury and death……….

dj

[rainbowgirl28]

DJ I get the point you're making, I'm just saying in the real world, it will not have a positive impact on safety and may well have a negative impact.

Also, in the real world we need those unathletic beginners to drive sales of shoes and poles, two things that fund our sport. Reducing the total number of vaulters will not help us in the US. Increasing the number of talented vaulters would, but raising opening heights won't achieve that. Maybe you should focus on other ways to recruit talent to the sport.

[vcpvcoach]

How about limiting the length of pole and or grip on a pole until the vaulters is jumping over that grip. Plus, make 20 inches the minimum forward the standards can be placed. I was at a meet on Friday and I was disgusted by the bad vaulting going on due to grip height. Not only at lower heights but from the top three vaulters (my guy not included in this because he vaulted 13'3" on a 14' pole holding 13'6" standards at 30"). Most of the problems in our event is not the starting heights but the over gripping of poles. By allowing 15.5 on the standards, we are encouraging vaulters to get hurt by over gripping. If you can't go deep in the pit, then you need to move your grip down until you can go deep.

[dj]

Hey

Becca I agree with the "marketing" aspect and even "starting low" to involve athletic or less athletic kids.. many, many times the "less" athletic will far exceed the "athletic" IF the head coach allows it to happen by letting them train and progress properly.

I was the fifth fastest boy in my little high school, 32 seniors, and was the only one that scored at the state meet and went on to play any sport in college and I say this because Leo is the "less" in this equations, not in my mind but for the head coach. The head coach who has been a friend for 30 years asked me to work with some freshman so he could get points in his county freshman championship.. Leo was running the 3200m and the 800m but was the only one that came to the five sessions… as soon as the meet was over there was no more pole vaulting because I wasn't a coach at the school.

Every coach in the sport that has the authority to enter an athlete in the pole vault should be required to know and follow the "Leo" five session program. How you would mandate it I don't know.

Maybe at the meet during the warm up we should give the official the authority to "disqualify" any athlete that cannot hold 8-6/9feet on the pole and swing 'safely" into the pit.

Interestingly that changed last Monday.. I was asked to coach football this spring and the coming fall and yesterday to be the head track coach next spring… The head football coach is a hugely successful California Football and TRACK guy that I had some connection with.. AND the 4 x 100 just ran 40.72 yesterday at the State meet!!! football players with only one senior.

If I take the job I will then have my own facility, control what I have ability to control and can develop all the events.

Back to the event and safety and starting heights.

Yesterday at State I sat at both men's and women's vaults, full sessions.. the most "successful" athletes were being coached by two of the three "club" coaches only one of the two's athletes had an unsafe vault. The third "club" coach teaches very high grips and very long "over striding" (slow) running steps. One or two VERY scary… several in the box.. All from over striding and losing speed, and over gripping……

…. Requiring………..

I have long though that we should require ONLY 3 standard (training poles like Bruce Caldwell's old training poles) Eleven (11) foot poles for boys and 3 for girls, furnished by the meet hosting school, just like you have the discus and 3 shots at the meet, for EVERY jumper below 10 feet… once the bar reaches 10 feet the vaulter can use their own pole. It would save money AND hopefully stop over gripping…

The number one thing that I recommend for safe vaulting was the correct approach run and pushed that issue 20 years ago when "safety" had a chance to get the vault shut down. If my chart and the six step "MID" check point is used you will virtually eliminate "over striding" and have a closer to correct run and have safer vaults…

Unfortunately nothing was written into the "safety" program and the 4 step check "suddenly" became the "preferred" "mid" system and we have continue to have over striding runs even with Olympic athletes even when their 4 stride "MID" was correct!

Women's vaulting saved vaulting in many ways… increased the numbers etc.. and interestingly the ladies have been safer.. smarter than us.. hope that doesn't change…

A correct run by the "numbers" would be the safest thing that could be done right now but can't be "mandated"…

Grip to vault height is a part of my chart.. www.oneapproachrun.com ANYONE/EVERYONE wanting to vault 7/7-6 should grip no higher than 9-6… for a 9/9-6 foot vault the grip should never be higher than 11 feet…

dj