Running Back?

[bambam]

In college I was taught to count down from my vault coach and use reference points from my long jump coach. I eventually went with using the count down method because it made my runway consistent in both events. I also correlated to exhale my breathing with my lefts similar to exhalation when squatting or other lifts. After years of practice you never think about the actual counting in competition, but the counting helps in pre-meet warm-ups to know if your plant step is on.
This may go on another thread, but how many of you have your athletes measure their distance back with a measuring tape? My personal thought is that every day the runway changes depending on how the athlete feels, weather, a headwind, and running surface. Why have a specific mark and adjust forward or backward depending on where the athlete is? Just have the kid do a runback at the beginning of every practice or meet and slightly adjust when they do their run-throughs. The only way I can think of doing this is by counting.

[altius]

"Just have the kid do a runback at the beginning of every practice or meet and slightly adjust when they do their run - throughs."

Oh dear - back with the fairies! That notion is straight out of Pole vault idiocy 101.

[rainbowgirl28]

This may go on another thread, but how many of you have your athletes measure their distance back with a measuring tape? My personal thought is that every day the runway changes depending on how the athlete feels, weather, a headwind, and running surface. Why have a specific mark and adjust forward or backward depending on where the athlete is? Just have the kid do a runback at the beginning of every practice or meet and slightly adjust when they do their run-throughs. The only way I can think of doing this is by counting.

I made a new thread for this.

While conditions and runways do change daily, it's fairly easy as a coach to figure out what those adjustments need to be. I use mid-marks religiously, so even if a kid runs through, I can tell where to make adjustments.

I would never have a kid run back unless maayyyybe if it was a kid I had never seen before who needed my help in a meet and had absolutely no memory of where they had ever run from before.

As you mentioned above, conditions change constantly. Running backward will have your kids running the opposite direction as the wind. If the runway is slightly downhill or uphill, they will be the wrong way on that too. But probably the biggest factor is that kids don't run the same when they are running toward the box and know they actually have to plant.

[altius]

Thanks Becca - that is how I should have explained it - would have done if the author had posed it as a question and not as a statement of fact. Sorry - it has been over 100 degrees for 11 days straight here so we are all a bit frazzled.

[bambam]

"Just have the kid do a runback at the beginning of every practice or meet and slightly adjust when they do their run - throughs."

Oh dear - back with the fairies! That notion is straight out of Pole vault idiocy 101.

Thats why I'm a newbie

Lesson learned - measure - midmarks

It just seems that every HS meet I go to the kids are running back and checking it to their measurement, so I thought it would be something worth bringing up. I trained with a guy that went 17'0 that did a runback every day and it just rubbed off on me. (Its human nature to imitate the leader of the pack due to lack of a better role model)
I guess its just like Bruce Lee said "No way is way. No limitation is limitation". All ways will work for some people, just one way is logically better than others.

[rwelch]

Will someone please post a link to the thread that has detailed instructions on how to take/ use mid-marks? I would like to implement this with my kids, but and exhaustive search of this site and the web only turns up the chart and arguements to use it.

Thanks in advance.

[altius]

Contact dj!!

[jeffschu]

I ran my steps back as more of a warm up, then go from a full run ready to go, now coaching I have my vaulters do it and having young vaulters anytime I can get them comfortable running with a pole Ill take it.

[ladyvolspvcoach]

if you have them run back from their individual mid marks you will have much more success!! and give you a built in check mark to see who is overstriding and who is not!!

[bambam]

I am using midmarks and all of my vaulters are looking great down the runway. Thank you for your help!

[stavhoppare]

I know this is long....I have posted it several times. IT WORKS!!!!!!!!!!


THE APPROACH IN THE LONG JUMP, TRIPLE JUMP AND POLE VAULT
DICK RAILSBACK
USATF DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE


THE TWO HORIZONTAL JUMPING EVENTS AND THE POLE VAULT SHARE MUCH IN APPROACH MECHANICS. THE APPROACH ALLOWS THE ATHLETE TO DEVELOP SPEED, TEMPO AND PROPER BODY POSITION TO ACHIEVE AN EFFICIENT TAKE OFF. AT ALL TIMES, THE ATHLETE MUST STRIVE TO BE A SPRINTER, USING PROPER SPRINT MECHANICS.

THERE ARE SEVERAL CONCEPTS REGARDING THE APPROACH THAT NEED TO BE CONSIDERED.
STEERING
FOR YOUNG ATHLETES OR THOSE JUST LEARNING THE EVENT, A SHORT APPROACH (15-20 M) IS RECOMMENDED. THE CONCEPT OF STEERING OR GETTING A FEEL FOR THE DISTANCE (SPATIAL AWARENESS) ALLOWS THE ATHLETE TO MAKE SUBTLE CHANGES IN THE STRIDE PATTERNS AS MIGHT BE NEEDED LATER ON IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE APPROACH. AT THIS STAGE, THERE IS NO REAL NEED TO RUN A PREDETERMINED NUMBER OF STEPS. IF THE ATHLETE SEEMS TO STRIDE OUT OR SHORTEN (CHOP) TO ACHIEVE THE PROPER TAKE OFF, THE COACH MAY SUGGEST MOVING THE STARTING POINT OF THE APPROACH FORWARD OR BACKWARD.

AS THE ATHLETE DEVELOPS A CONSISTENT STRIDE PATTERN AND EFFICIENT SPRINT MECHANICS, A SPECIFIC NUMBER OF STEPS CAN BE SET FOR A MORE PRECISE APPROACH.
SPEED
ONE CONCEPT TO BE UNDERSTOOD IS THE FASTER ATHLETE WILL NEED MORE DISTANCE (LONGER APPROACH) TO REACH TOP SPEED WHILE THE SLOWER JUMPER SHOULD USE A SHORTER APPROACH. A SLOW JUMPER MAY BE ABLE TO DEVELOP TOP SPEED IN JUST A FEW STRIDES WHILE TOP SPRINTERS REACH MAXIMUM VELOCITY FROM 40 M. TO 60 M. FROM THE START. AS MOST YOUNG, DEVELOPING JUMPERS DO NOT POSSESS GREAT SPEED, IT IS RECOMMENDED THAT THEY USE A SHORTER APPROACH UNTIL THEY DEVELOP BETTER STRENGTH, FLEXIBILITY AND SPRINT MECHANICS.

THE ATHLETE SHOULD STRIVE TO ATTAIN MAXIMUM SPEED (FOR THE APPROACH BEING USED) THROUGH THE TAKE OFF. WE HAVE OFTEN HEARD THE TERM “MAXIMUM CONTROLED SPEEDâ€

[bambam]

Actually started using the MID chart for a long jumper I coach. He was going from 6 lefts (12 step) approach and was not at an acceptable level of speed to hit ta 55' MID accuratly. His PR was 19'6. We adjusted his run to an 8 left approach and it put his MID right where it should be and he is jumping a consistent 21'

I am having success with using this in the vault now because it really shows a flawed approach.