Flagging out...revisited.

[OUvaulterUSAF]

On 15' poles I hold right at the top and have no problem staying in tight on my inversion. However, when I make the transition to 16' poles I have a tendency after my take-off to pull only to about my knees (if I'm lucky, more like shins) on inversion and then flag out over the bar. Ideally I realize I should pull to about hip level on the inversion and then initiate the turn over the bar to utilize as much energy in the pole as possible. I'm sure it takes practice and experience and trust me I do pop-ups at nausia. I also know that there is a timing difference in the different lengths of poles.

I want to know what drills out there to help me. Bubkas? grip length?


*As a side, I think there should be a section between college and elite, called "has-beens & never-was" for jokers like me.

[VaultBrad]

it sounds like you might not be swinging fast enough. where are you holding on the 16's? i know that when i cap my 15's they are alot slower. i do alot of swing-ups on a bar that i built for myself in the back yard. just hanging then swinging like i would on a pole. bubkas are good too, i do just as much of those. doing these might help you get inverted faster and be able to catc the full recoil of the pole

[uconnvaulta]

theres also a difference in the feel of the poles, and different placement of the sail piece. holding the top of a 15 foot pole will be a lot quicker than holding on a 16 just because of the difference in the make of poles. so that might be a reason because you are holding the take off long enough and really penatrating into the pit. once you get your take off correct on the 16s its a lot easier to get into the pit and really get inverted and not flag out.

[lonestar]

How much are you raising your grip from the 15's to 16's?

[OUvaulterUSAF]

Right now I hold about 15' 4" but it's still a completely different feeling than a 15' pole.

This may be off topic but does anyone believe it has to do with take off style?

I have the big take-off, straight arm plant that was preached to me since I was a little.

However, I see people like Dragila and Jacob Davis back in the day have plants that almost hit them in the head yet they can swing upside down in an instant.

Is there any corelation to have a slightly bent left elbow (right handers) with an ease of swinging faster/harder?

[VaultBrad]

vitaly petrov teaches the slightly bent left arm, no more than 90 degrees. it helps in the transfer of energy to the pole and also puts you in a good position to start the down pressuring of the pole during the swing and inversion. by alowing your arm to bend you are able to let your chest move in at take off. however, you dont want to plant with your arm bent, you want to plant as high as you can and let the momentum from your run and take off naturally bend your arm a little bit.

[Barto]

Right now I hold about 15' 4" but it's still a completely different feeling than a 15' pole.

Darn right it is different! 4-5" of grip at that level is very substantial. If you don't mind my asking, how high are you jumping with your grip ~ 15"? If you are jumping under 17' I would say the problem is probably more too much grip for how well you are running/taking off. 15'4" should be generating jumps of 17'6"+ if you can physically handle it.

My 2 cents,

Barto

[MightyMouse]

vitaly petrov teaches the slightly bent left arm, no more than 90 degrees. it helps in the transfer of energy to the pole and also puts you in a good position to start the down pressuring of the pole during the swing and inversion. by alowing your arm to bend you are able to let your chest move in at take off. however, you dont want to plant with your arm bent, you want to plant as high as you can and let the momentum from your run and take off naturally bend your arm a little bit.

Im pretty sure at his lecture at Reno he made sure to say that the strait left arm was a very key element at takeoff but he said after the impact occurs the left arm can bend without creating problems

[VaultBrad]

thats true he did specify that the left arm should be straight at take off. this is because the vaulter is trying to achieve the greatest angle at take off by getting the pole as high as possible. this isnt possible with a bent arm.

that was a great speach. i learned alot from him.

[Robert schmitt]

I have the big take-off, straight arm plant that was preached to me since I was a little.

However, I see people like Dragila and Jacob Davis back in the day have plants that almost hit them in the head yet they can swing upside down in an instant.

Is there any corelation to have a slightly bent left elbow (right handers) with an ease of swinging faster/harder?

It sounds like since you can get to where you want to be on the 15's that it's not a matter of not knowing how or having the strength to get into the postion. It could be 1) your hand hold in relation to the sail piece is closer on the 16' and the pole is opening up to soon (not timing up) for you causing you to have to "rush" to get off the pole. Or 2) what may be happening is when you go to the 16's your aren't keeping the pole moving into the pit through out the whole jump as well and you get off the pole "flag" as a result to get into the pit. Having some bend in your bottom arm will allow you to sink into a deeper revese C and have a more dynamic swing which will keep the pole moving through out your whole vault--ie. you'll time up with the pole better.

[KYLE ELLIS]

Right now I hold about 15' 4" but it's still a completely different feeling than a 15' pole.

Darn right it is different! 4-5" of grip at that level is very substantial. If you don't mind my asking, how high are you jumping with your grip ~ 15"? If you are jumping under 17' I would say the problem is probably more too much grip for how well you are running/taking off. 15'4" should be generating jumps of 17'6"+ if you can physically handle it.

My 2 cents,

Barto

now i agree with that

[OUvaulterUSAF]

Right now I hold about 15' 4" but it's still a completely different feeling than a 15' pole.

Darn right it is different! 4-5" of grip at that level is very substantial. If you don't mind my asking, how high are you jumping with your grip ~ 15"? If you are jumping under 17' I would say the problem is probably more too much grip for how well you are running/taking off. 15'4" should be generating jumps of 17'6"+ if you can physically handle it.

My 2 cents,

Barto

You're right, my height is around 15'.

Other factors, I don't have a place to vault practice. I don't even sprint practice (work and school plus the snow on the ground). The only time I jump is at meets. I just got on my 16' pole for the first in a meet in January and again last weekend.

I had this problem in college, gripping around 15'4"-6" with jumps around 5.25m.

I'm just researching other factors in a person's technique. But everything seems to always boil down to the take-off.