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cstary wrote:The tap, like most things in vaulting, is a learned technique. It has its merits as well as its problems, and I agree that more should be discussed on the matter. If done properly, it will safely help to transition a vaulter to a bigger pole. It is similar to a gymnastic "spot." The spot is a technical aid to guide a gymnast through a new routine. An untrained or uneducated spot can be disastrous, and usually only a well seasoned coach or trainer will feel comfortable giving one.

Bottom line, a well educated and savvy coach should be able to utilize a tap if they deem that the vaulter will benefit from it. Anyone unfamiliar with tapping should definitely be smart enough to avoid giving one. But to eliminate a coach's right to properly utilize this tool is extreme. I always put safety first, but I am a firm believer that over-regulation can eventually dismantle and destroy the event . . .

Creed

right on coach

ladyvolspvcoach wrote:Roman, Dude I'm taking good care of your ramp......it's getting used a lot!!!!

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I am glad that it searves you well. 3 hours well spent in making it.

3 Hours!!!!! What took you soo long??? four bolts!!! and some mondo!!! I've got a shop 101 class for ya!!

"Anyone unfamiliar with tapping should definitely be smart enough to avoid giving one."

I started this topic to stir things up a bit but this comment sums up the problem. How do folk who are unfamiliar with tapping KNOW they really are not good enough to use it? If they see it done by experienced coaches and it APPEARS to be a good idea ,why shouldnt THEY do it? So they do! And so it continues to be used to teach many ahletes bad habits at take off.

Thought for next week "The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle". USAF Col. Don Stp -who spent his professional life riding on a ocket sled to investigate the effects of g forces on the human body.

I understand that taps are illegal in competition and in warmups, and i completely agree with that. What i don't agree with is having them be completely outlawed including practice.... that is where they are needed.

altius wrote:"Anyone unfamiliar with tapping should definitely be smart enough to avoid giving one."

I started this topic to stir things up a bit but this comment sums up the problem. How do folk who are unfamiliar with tapping KNOW they really are not good enough to use it? If they see it done by experienced coaches and it APPEARS to be a good idea ,why shouldnt THEY do it? So they do! And so it continues to be used to teach many ahletes bad habits at take off.

This "problem" you have can be applied to almost any situation where a new idea/technique is acquired. THEY should have the sense to see that some technique is involved in the execution, just like THEY shouldn't move their grip up 15" and go to a 40lb heavier pole and try taking off (although some people just don't know any better, and would do it anyway).

Bottom line, if you have never given a tap before, don't give one without proper training from an experienced "tapper." "Proper training" is obviously a subjective grey area, but common sense would apply here - a seasoned coach who has been around the vault for a number of years and who routinely taps would have a better idea about the timing and vectors involved than a couple of high school athletes out catching each other's steps.

I also disagree with your assumption that taps teach bad habits. With a tap, you have an opportunity to run relaxed and hit the takeoff tall, knowing that you'll have enough momentum to make the pit safely. I would call that good technique. When you take off scared, you are low with the hips and hands, and probably overstriding too. I would call that a bad habit, and that almost always happens when you first make a big transition.

Had I not grown up getting taps, I doubt I would ever had made the transition to 5m poles . . . just too scary. Plus, had I not seen numerous elite coaches and elite jumpers giving and getting taps over the years, I wouldn't be as comfortable with it.

I'll give you this, though - taps can be dangerous, they can send a jumper off the end or side of a pit, and your post at least serves to point out that they should not be taken for granted. Consider this - vaulting is also dangerous. If you do it wrong, you can get hurt . . . bad. If you do it right, you'll always be fine. And guess what - people want to outlaw it. What side of the fence would you be on then?

Creed

my coach did that when i first tried to bend now im too scared to bend by myself, it think its just an added "aid" and now im dependant on that and im having a hard time trying to bend without him there...

Well we got a bit of action out of this one. Note that i never suggested that the tap should be eliminated by having a rule against it. I just hoped folk would see that like any artificial aid it could make people think they can do things they are not ready for. Even more important it tends to encourage the athlete to use a lazy take off.

Next time you go to a meet watch carefully to see how many athletes never finish the take off with a complete extension of the take off leg and ankle> You should see the toe pointing down or even slighly back -what I have seen in Reno over the past two years -because i have been watching carefuly -is the toe pointing forwards -even directly at the pad. That simple cue alone suggests to me that many athletes -because i saw it in many athletes - are not finishing the take off. They need to do that first and my view is that they will not do it if they think they can rely on a tap in training -then 'suck it up and go for it in a comp'

Still my grandma used to say "A man convinced against his will remains of the same opinion still" so i do not expect to see the tap eliminated any time soon. So this is another topic I am out of.

altius wrote:

Next time you go to a meet watch carefully to see how many athletes never finish the take off with a complete extension of the take off leg and ankle> You should see the toe pointing down or even slighly back -what I have seen in Reno over the past two years -because i have been watching carefuly -is the toe pointing forwards -even directly at the pad. That simple cue alone suggests to me that many athletes -because i saw it in many athletes - are not finishing the take off. They need to do that first and my view is that they will not do it if they think they can rely on a tap in training -then 'suck it up and go for it in a comp'

I cann't fathom how you could take off the ground with out killing yourself taking off the way you descirbe.

Exactly my point!

I had never heard this term before ' tap" probably becuase my sons coach never did this with him...But I have seen many coaches/athletes do this. I can see how it would teach bad habits and create a false sense of security. And perhaps even dangerous ? Bobby free plants every jump... even in warmups

well..my coach uses the tap..but only when we are first learning how to bend the pole. he dpesnt like the idea of the tap..but he doesnt want us to get hurt. so he does use the tap..but he also has us plant in the sand pit. that helps us b/c we have more time to get our legs up and turn..and work on form. that has really helped me. i see both sides..i can def. see how the tap is a bad idea..but being a fairly new vaulter..i think the tap is a good idea. well..altius..what do u think about planting(only straight poling) into the sand pit? is that a good or bad idea? i need some ideas..cuz our coach just left and our new coach is probably going to be the shot put coach..he did some pole vaulting in his day..lol. but our old coach said to get some new ideas for next year..since we have a new coach.