rockup

[indestructo]

What pole did you jump on yesterday? What are your standards set at?

Yes, staying close to the pole will result in a better top end of the vault and a higher jump, but if your bottom end of the vault isn't good, then staying close to the pole will be much harder to accomplish. Essentially you need to get more rotation, faster. Without a strong plant and a good swing phase, you won't achieve that. The best way to learn those two phases is on a pole that doesn't bend yet. My kids, every year, do hundreds of pole runs and even more pop-ups before we even get to the point the pole starts to bend. If you master your approach and plant, the rest comes easy.

oh yea, won't holding low on a pole my weight be dangerous because if you have to work alot harder to get into the pit and if you don't, the pole will spit you back out on the runway? just a little information i came across recently....

This is precisely the reason you hold low on the pole. If you hold too high on a pole of any weight rating, it will spit you back out. A low handgrip on any weight rating is easier to get penetration on. What you are doing with a pole rated 20lbs under your weight is testing that pole....the likely hood that you are going to snap that thing goes up as your speed and technique start to improve. If you are jumping with your standards at 16-20, then you are risking catastrophic injury every time you jump.

[masilva]

My pole was the 11'0 130 Skypole i told about before. we had two other poles i could of used. a 130 11'5" Pacer, and 140 12'4" Altius. My standards were 20. that makes sense as to how it's really difficult for me to stay close to the pole

[KirkB]

... this one coach said. they say the i don't stay tight to the pole whenever i go up, is this just something you have to force yourself to do? my coach said i could possibly get another 1 1/2 feet if i could stay tight to the pole and turn ...

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that your coach is seeing that you have a potential of "another 1 1/2 feet if i could stay tight to the pole and turn" becuz you're gripping way too high. Probably 1 1/2 feet too high. Coincidence? I doubt it. You're probably quite athletic, so you're able to grip quite high on a soft pole. But is that helping you get to where you want to go? I doubt it. But that's just a wild guess ... what do I know?

... won't holding low on a pole my weight be dangerous because if you have to work alot harder to get into the pit and if you don't, the pole will spit you back out on the runway? just a little information i came across recently....

Well, what if you held the pole so low ... like REALLY low ... that you were GUARANTEED of making the pit? What are your chances of getting spit back out on the runway then?

And "spit back out on the runway" is something that a BENT pole can do to you. If you don't bend it, what are your chances of getting "spit back"?

if you have to work alot harder to get into the pit

That's EXACTLY what you need. You need to "work a lot harder" to get into the pit. Don't just let the soft pole carry you there. Run fast. Jump hard. Swing long. Work a lot harder!

Kirk

[indestructo]

At a minimum I would move you to the 12'4" 140 in practice, holding 11ft (since that is where you are holding now...probably lower). As a coach, I couldn't tell an official that you were jumping legally. Your coach is lying to the officials and putting you in danger. If I was officiating that meet yesterday, you would not have jumped on any of your poles. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but when someone is blatantly putting someone in danger and putting this sport at risk of another lawsuit, I have to speak up. GET A NEW POLE! Borrow one from another school if you have to, we do it all the time.

Having your standards at 20 means you aren't getting the penetration you need especially when you are "bending the crap out of it". If you are doing that then logic says you are blowing through and need your standards buried at 31. To put this into more shocking terms, because it appears the message isn't getting through.... You are not getting the penetration you need at that handgrip and you are bending the crap out of it... This means you are dangerously close to snapping that pole and if you are lucky, only getting away with an ambulance ride to the hospital, at worse, paralysis or death. There is a reason why we have a strict rule about jumping on poles rated at your weight rating....

Do yourself and your coach a favor and get on the 13' 150 you mentioned earlier. Yes its too long, hold down at 10-10'6" and learn how to vault right from the bottom up. You don't sound like you are ready to work on the top end of the vault. You do sound like you have a lot of potential, so I encourage you to listen to the coaches giving you advice on here.

[indestructo]

If you can, try to get a video posted somewhere, that would make recommending things easier if we can all see whats going on...

[souleman]

You mentioned you were flagging out. Well? at 9 feet you ARE going to flag out pending everything is on according to the mid mark chart. A 9' foot jump requires a minimum 10' 6" grip from the bottom of the pole. Taking into account the 8 inch depth of the box your grip is still 8 inches above the crossbar. So in this case a "flag" is OK, According to DJ, based on the physics the chart was designed on, a flag is expected. On a 9 foot jump you just don't have the time to get fully inverted. That's why the recommended grip is 8" above the height you want to clear. As has been mentioned on this forum a million times, "it's pole vaulting, not pole bending". Kirk is so dead on with his recommendations for getting on a stiffer pole. I'll bet if you got on a pole that was 20 to 25 pounds over your weight, gripped it according to the mid mark chart (maybe one grip higher which would be 10' 10" for a 9' vault) you'd be sailing over that 9' if your 6 step mid and take off were correct.

Editorial comment, The mid mark chart is not limited to intermediate and advanced vaulters. I have had great success using it's principles for the beginning vaulters as well. For the beginning vaulter the run and plant is the hardest thing for most of them to "get down". The chart is great for dialing in those early mind sets that contribute to confidence and safety.
Later
Mike

[masilva]

ok, so my coach is gonna allow me to get on a 145, 12'6" or 13', i do not know yet. what should i expect when i take up my first vault holding at 10'6" or 11' ? since i am used to bending my 130? and what should i strive for when i take it up?

[souleman]

For one, everything will happen quicker because you won't have the time delay that a bending pole offers. Also, you're going to miss a lot of bars because the straight pole won't hide the deficiencies in your technique. Don't despair or give up after a couple of "ugly" jumps. Stay with it. With a straight pole you have to take off strong, swing fast and actually jump correctly. You will be so happy when you transfer the straight pole lessons back to a bending pole. You and your coach will do what you guys will do but I'd like to see you stay on a stiffer (no bending) pole till you're over 10 feet. Let us know how things progress. Later............Mike

[KirkB]

... the straight pole won't hide the deficiencies in your technique. Don't despair or give up after a couple of "ugly" jumps. Stay with it. With a straight pole you have to take off strong, swing fast and actually jump correctly. You will be so happy when you transfer the straight pole lessons back to a bending pole.

Just to underline ... literally ... the essence of Souleman's post. It's so true!

It will be VERY tempting to get "back to a bending pole" BEFORE you learn straight-poling technique PROPERLY. This doesn't happen overnight. Be patient. You and your coach BOTH need to be patient. It will pay BIG dividends later on.

As far as timing ... within this season or between seasons ... what do you advice, Souleman? I'm thinking it's getting a little late in the outdoor HS season to be straight-poling for very long. How quickly should they transition to "bent-poling" in prep for upcoming meets?

In a perfect world, it's during the off-season when the straight-pole training should occur. But since you're in the thick of the outdoor season already, I'm thinking that you should GRADUALLY move to a LITTLE bend in a few weeks ... but NEVER to the point of "bending the crap out of the pole" at all this season ... or ever! Souleman?

Kirk

[souleman]

On Dave Butlers Reno video he talks about high schools and colleges investing in 12 and 13 foot poles for the purpose of short run short pole straight pole vaulting (I think he said) one session per week. Many have suggested here that a boy should not be on a bending pole till after he's clearing 10' feet regularly. I agree with that (to a point). The following is an example of how a timing and technique transition using straight pole vaulting occurred in my backyard with two of my guys. Last fall for about a 2 month period I had them on a chopped 13 X 170 spirit (chopped to 12 feet). The thing was like a steel pole at the start. Their grip was at the top (11' 10") and they were starting with the left at 40 feet. I allowed them to walk up, trot up, start at, or run up to that 40 foot mark before they could turn on the gas and jump. As time past, both were jumping 11 to 12 feet with this set up. As there approach got better and there take off stronger and their technique got better they started hitting that pole hard enough to get it to bend. They try to do at least one of these sessions a week either at their school practices or when they come over on Sundays. So, with that being said, in this case I would like to see our vaulter on that stiffer pole. All the way to the end of the season if need be. As his technique improves so will the bend start to happen. We're only talking 20 lbs heavier or so. As he moves up grip (fingers at a time) the pole will bend more and each timing transition should just roll into the next. I'm not saying that he has to have a Petrov perfect technique before we move up. I'm just saying that I would surmise that if the pole is bending like crap his whole jump is like crap. Here's the beauty of this. I think our jumper is a sophomore (well underclassman at least) so he doesn't have to be perfect this year. He needs to do what he can to help the team with points and maybe 9' will get some team points for his school. He has time to work this regimen so that he's not struggling with technique when he's a senior. I agree that the season is winding down but I believe that the benefits of starting this regimen now will have many future benefits for Mr. Masilva. I hope I answered your question. If I didn't ask me again and I'll try to do a better job of answering. Later.............Mike