Isinbayeva 5m!!!

[stavhoppare]

you got it.

Dick Railsback,
5X All-American and 2X National Champion, former Olympic Vault Coach, former University of Nebraska Coach, and World-renowned Clinician/expert on the Pole Vault
Coach Railback provides a comprehensive look at every aspect of women's pole vaulting with demonstrations, a plethora of information, and a direct, easy-to-understand approach. Everything about teaching and learning the pole vault is included in this video: concepts, pole speed, running with the pole, approach, plant, take off, follow-through, inversion, clearance, and much, much more! Any coach or vaulter serious about the event will learn something from this video!

56 minutes. 2002. ISBN 1-56404-924-8.
See more by: Dick Railsback
See related products: Pole Vault Women's Track & Field Videos and Books

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[rainbowgirl28]

http://www.kommersant.com/page.asp?id=595899

Clearing the Bar
Russia’s pole vaulter Elena Isinbayeva, 23, became the first woman to set late Friday the record which recently seemed unattainable. She cleared five meters at the London athletics Grand Prix. But it is apparently not her limit yet.
Everyone was used to Elena Isinbayeva’s records: she chalked up over fifteen of them before the London competition. The last two were set in Lausanne (4.93m) and Madrid (4.95m). Yet, the Friday attempt came as a surprise for many people. Even for those who heard that Isinbayeva and her coach often had often gone beyond that height in training.

The president of the Russian Federation of Athletics Valentin Balakhnichev said he was sure the Russian would soon become the fist woman to soar over five meters in the pole vault but he had thought it would happen in a month, at the World Championships in Helsinki. At least, because it is not customary that an athlete shows all he is worth ahead of the season’s main competition. Isinbayeva broke the historic record in London, in very favorable weather conditions (21 C, windless), which testifies to the fact that it is not the peak for the athlete. Besides, the Russian took 4.70m and 4.80m with such an ease, in contrast to most of her rivals who found it hard to reach the heights. Later she asked to put the bar at the record 4.96 and here she misgave taking the high only by the second attempt. But as if trying to show the audience the previous miss was accidental, she soared over five meters at one dash.

The man who can be considered the best expert in pole vaulting had the same feeling in London. Great Sergey Bubka who broke the “cosmicâ€Â

[Lax PV]

Saying someone jumped 20 feet if the bar had been there is like saying "if your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle."

I don't know where you heard that, but that is awesome. And I completely agree with you. Practice PR's are cool cause they give you confidence. Big clearances give you confidence, but there is a lot more that goes into making a bar then where your belly ends up... i.e. how your feet come off and how close they are to the bar...

p.s. I am not a huge fan oif the free takeoff either. I feel you should leave the ground when the pole tip is at the back of the box so you are always in contact with the ground. Otherwise, hitting the back without any pressure from coming off the ground just makes me think you're loosing energy somewhere.

[NUVAULTER]

It is better to be just a bit under than to be a bit out. Creating force is all well and good if it is applied properly in the correct direction.

Taking off under is better than out?... With a proper take-off with enough of a vertical jump, taking off out is better. Everyone can create energy on the runway, its the ones who convert it the best are the ones who jump the highest, Taking off under is not the best way to convert energy, it gets lost, in the box, in your back, in your shoulders, and that loud noise the pole makes when it hits. If you look at the best vaulters they all have very good take offs with a few exceptions, Bubka, Tarasov, Markov, Tim mack, Toby Stevensen, Gibilisco, etc...

Coach Attig was very very addament about this with all of us vaulters. I have a huge problem taking off under and it casues so many problems, Besides the loss of energy, its nearly impossible to plant as tall as possible, which makes the follow thru more difficult, and you can never fully invert with the pole becasue you hips are instantly sucked towards the ground rather that rising throughout the whole vault, not to mention how badly it can kill your pole rotation,

Just my thoughts.......

[NUVAULTER]

wow that quote thing is reversed... sorry for the confusion

[dj]

Maybe we are missing the point...

the point is/was, if the athletic ability has been there for 25+ years and the basic physics, why do we have so many difference of opinion… we have to be talking about the same thing……… but just describing it differently..

application of force… onto a pole… that will bend according to the amount of force and angle of application..

now run the technique you have .. through your mind.. or look at a video…

ask questions through the phases..

run? Applying force or loosing force.. where …in the way your running?.. or the way you’re carrying the pole? The way you’re “pushingâ€Â

[Mecham]

The link to the jump doesnt seem to work anymore

[altius]

Just like to throw in a post from another topic on this forum - it may have some relevance to this discussion -which seems to have moved away from Isinbyeva's 5.00 metre jump! However it is difficult to accept a statement that there is no Pre jump - free take off .

"Of course the free take is a giant hoax. It is just another attempt by Bubka and his former coach Petrov to lead American vaulters down the wrong path. It is a dastardly plot in line with Bubka's arranging for the pegs to be shortened, time to be cut and 'voltzing' to be eliminated - all to ensure that his record is not broken for a few years - especially by a US vaulter. Well that appears to represent a one view of the situation - not an informed one - but who cares??

However if this is the case you have to first accept that Petrov knows very little about the vault, that I and many other coaches - including incidentally Peter McGinnis - have been hoodwinked, and that Bubka either does not know what he tried to do as vaulter or is in fact a liar. You also have to ignore the video evidence of both Bubka and many other jumpers, notably Dima Markov. More importantly you have to ignore the biomechanical logic of a free take off and its extension the prejump.

However readers may be interested in the following snippet gleaned from the IOC medical commission who carried out some studies in Sydney. In Bulletin Number 8, January 2002 on page 23 Abstract Number 7 "Kinematics and kinetics in pole vaulting: Energy storage and energy return", produced by researchers Peter Bruggemann of Germany and P. V. Komi of Finland it states -
"The purpose of this paper was to improve vaulting technique while at the same time reducing the potential for lower back injuries (Does that ring a few bells folks??).
Results.
"Two techniques are used in pole vaulting. In technique 1 the pole hits the ground(sic) while both of the athletes feet (sic) are still on the ground. In technique 2 the grip on the pole is slightly higher and the athlete's feet are just off the ground when the pole hits the surface for the first time. The difference between the two techniques is only 50 milliseconds. Technique 1 puts more stress on the spine and does not maximise the jump height potential. Technique 2 is not only safer on the spine, but it allows for higher jumps."

Allowing for mistakes in translation the message is pretty clear but the full transcript of the study has not been released - again i am sure this has been done to confuse US vaulters! Incidentally the researchers are going to follow this study up in Helsinki where the box will be instrumented - i believe for the first time in a major competition.


"It doesnt matter which way the wind is blowing, if you dont know which port you want to sail to". Seneca - Roman poet around 2000 years ago.

[dj]

altius..

i'm not sure if your post was in answer to something i said or if it came from a previous statement on this thread...

it is difficult to accept a statement that there is no Pre jump - free take off .

is the problem with coaches/athletes not accepting the technique or not accepting the terms..prejump .. free takeoff?

most "good" coaches seem to be coaching the physics the way peter has laid it out... i do disagree with peters analysis about the takeoff angle.. that angle is relative to the force being applied and the pole stiffness..at the time...

i also have seen some vaulters "over" jump and have negative results..

have you described .. the prejump and free takeoff in these pages (pvp) ..

again is it non acceptance of the technique or the terms that has "your panties in a wad.."

and how do we get past this "hoax" "a plot" "hoodwinked" "liar"
and move forward...

dj

[altius]

Never a problem with you dj - if bubba respects you and your knowledge thats enough for me!

My post originally went up in response to "The free take off: the key to success or a giant hoax" in the technique forum. My response was a bit tongue in cheek - obviously not funny - but that is why the term hoax was used. Re liar - how can you deal with a situation where Bubka categorically stated in Jamiaca that he aways tried to leave the ground before the pole tip hit the back of the box - yet folk continually claim on this forum that he did no such thing - that this is impossible - and anyway it is better to take off under!

Re the terms free take off and pre jump. I have never defined them here but have in BTB. I did that because although Petrov clearly thought it was an important term it had never been defined in a way that made sense to me - so I attempted to to do so. In essence I felt that a free take off was one where the tip hit the back of the box as the athletes toe left the ground so there was no loading of the pole until then. However after talking with Petrov further - and then with Bubka - I felt there was a difference between this and what I then termed a pre jump where the athlete is in the air before the pole tip touches. Bubka confirmed this is jamiaca and the guys in sydney seem to say the same thing - even if in his case he says 'hundredths of a second' and they say 50 milliseconds. The photograph on the inside cover of BTB of his first ever 6.00m jump in 1985 suggests he was 4 inches in the air while the pole is still straight. I have seen Markov 1 foot in the air on his eight step drills - and he must be doing that for a reason - which becomes evident when he jumps.

I believe words are important -and the actions described are important. Particularly when compared with the tendency for many athletes to take off under- often well under so putting themselves at risk but even worse this kind of take off is continually endorsed in this forum. I dont care what we call these elements of technique as long we can all agree that they can be executed and can then find terms to define them to everyones satisfaction. Mine was just an attempt to clarify the situation.

[altius]

Incidentally I understand that Peter MacGinnis has only come to accpet the notion of a "pre jump" take off - if that is what it can be called - in the last eighteen months or so - would be interested to learn what evidence changed his mind.

[dj]

altius,

great post.. thanks..it can't be said any clearer..

taking of under and low is the most damaging element to loss of force.. and
ironically can only happen because of the fiber glass pole.. the very “inventionâ€Â