USA track and Feild Article

[altius]

Dj suggests "what we as coaches need to take from any comments on our "failures" is to ask...what do we do to change things..."

Agree totally. Remember this is a forum -a place for debate -and sometimes disagreement. it is through dialogue that the truth will emerge. As i have suggested elsewhere one of the biggest problems for US vaulting in general is an unwillingness to look outside ones region or state for the clues. So although I have not read the article in question i would suggest that the writer may well have a point.

Of even greater importance is the fact that in the land of 'free speech' folk should not get snarly because someone dares to question their cherished beliefs - especially when those beliefs are based on jingoism not fact.

As coaches we would probably benefit from accepting the notion that our ideas at any one time can best be described as a 'working fiction' - they are the best we have to base our methods on as we coach on a day to day basis - but we should always be trying to search for the truth so that we can bring our 'fiction' closer to fact. The truth can come from anywhere, any time and in any language - SOME folk in the US seem to find this a difficult idea to comprehend.

[VTechVaulter]

that article is crap

first... his girls dont jump any different than the good girls in the uS

second.. he heavily relies on athleticism

if you give me a 19' female long jumper, ill give u a 14' vaulter. he obviously knows his stuff, but his attitude needs to change

[vaultfan]

OK, here’s a few comments made by Rick Suhr in the April issue of Track and Field:

What is his big secret? “It’s the whole package of how we approach the entire event,â€Â

[CHC04Vault]

[quote="vaultfan"]
He gets both when he watches video of WR setters Yelena Isinbayeva and Svetlana Feofanova, who have unleashed a Russian revolution in the event during the last two years. “I feel that American vaulting overall is going in the wrong direction,â€Â

[rainbowgirl28]

I look at the number of high school kids who post on this board who are obviously getting little/no/bad coaching, and I know we are going in the wrong direction

I don't care how many medals we bring home from the Olympics if we have kids who are winding up in the hospital or worse.

[CHC04Vault]

I def agree with that i actaully meant to say something about that, but from his quotes he is talking about world caliber athletes not juniors. but in the case of high school coachin, yeah we are def goin in the wrong direction...if any direction at all. i would like to hope in time that will change, but i dont see it happening. just last week my alma mater told me i could not help coach pole vaulters because i wasn't a "coach" though all their coaches have not taken the certification for pole vault (they dont even know there is 1 prolly, and still insist on long runs -7 steps-for drills and to lock the bottom arm out) and yet i have...does any1 find that odd???

[VTechVaulter]

I look at the number of high school kids who post on this board who are obviously getting little/no/bad coaching, and I know we are going in the wrong direction

I don't care how many medals we bring home from the Olympics if we have kids who are winding up in the hospital or worse.

but hes claiming it as a style of vaulting. its not the style of vaulting thats getting them hurt, its having no coach or a coach that doesn't understand the fundamentals of the sport. but to say that US vault technique sux and russians are the only way to go its just silly and close minded.

[vaultfan]

I'm not being sarcastic when I say that everyone is entitled to their opinions. In fact, the purpose of my post was to make the information available to everyone about this article so that it could be discussed.

But I do feel that, overall, the pole vaulting community within the USA has kept a very closed mind toward the Russian style of vaulting. And I cannot help but feel that there are worthwhile lessons to be learned from studying the several different aspects of their style.

[Carolina Extreme]

Well I for one feel the need to speak up for Rick. I really don't know him, but we have spoken a few times. Rick has a thirst for vault knowledge and is argueably getting the job done. His athletes love him, and they are developing quickly. Heck, I admire the man, as well as any other coach out there that is "getting the job done". I don't care what he calls his style and it really doesn't matter. I don't know what to call my style, but it works. Mine is a combination styles: East Coast+Jonesboro+California+Oregon+Russian+PFA(Pluck From Air). I like taking things/ideas from many great coaches, thinking them through every part of the vault, how things work together and affect each other, to decide on my own why things work the way they do and what might yield better results. There is nothing I like more than vault talk with great coaches/athletes. To think outside the box. Rick has been doing that very well. I think that is all he is suggesting... that we think outside the box.

I don't put much into newspaper or magazine articles. They tend to print only what they want to print, or what space, or their editor, allows. Things can and often are taken totally out of context. Unfortunately they will not print everything you say word for word.

[mikepv1]

Europe does seem to have a better or more complete coaching system set up for younger, developing vaulters. Part of this is probably because T&F/Athletics is more celebrated over there. Another part may be simply due to fewer athletes/more coaches in European nations. Generally, in the more populous parts of Europe, if you are an up an coming track and field athlete, the nearest coach usually isn't too far away.

As for U.S. elite technique going in the wrong direction, it depends on which U.S. vaulter you are talking about. The whole tuck/shoot technique that seems to be popular I don't agree with. Nor do I agree with running off the ground rather than springing up at the plant. Tim Mack (my vault idol, lol) doesn't tuck and shoot. Neither does Lawrence Johnson

I really think alot of the problem in this dispute is the nationalization of techniques. Referring to tucking and shooting as 'American' and and pendulum-style Petrovite vaulting as 'Russian' is a bad idea, not to mention inaccurate. There are vaulters outside of Russia that have used that technique, and there are certainly vaulters outside of America who tuck and shoot. Referring to a technique as Russian or American brings nationalism into a debate where it doesn't belong.

The debate should be simple: what you need to do with your body during the vault to make the vault more efficient and the end result higher.

Nothing else matters.

A good example of what I am trying to enocurage is VaultNinja. He bases his opinions about technique on physics and what he thinks is the most efficient way to vault, not on nationality, and he posts his opinions accordingly. He even calls upon extensive video analysis (Dartfish) to back up his views.

Some other members who are also pretty good about this are agapit, dj, and altius. They generally post arguments in favor of what they think should be done technically in the vault to improve it, not whether it is Russian or American.

This whole nationalism factor in pole vault debates is a barrier to communication and must be resolved.

As for the article, I am not defending or refuting Rick Suhr's comments. In all honesty, I have not even read the article. I am just using this as an opportunity to present something that I have observed on the board and elsewhere.

[B]

I read the article last month and was rather put off by Mr. Suhr's comments (example: "I feel that American vaulting overall is going in the wrong direction"....). This statement was generalized, innacurate and negative in tone. Most of the concepts discussed in the article have been studied for decades. I do not think it is necessary to promote yourself at the expense of others, and unfortunately, that is how I percieved the slant of the article.

It has been pointed out correctly that the media will take interviews out of context to promote interest so I did not take it seriously.

In a more positive light I think the American vault community should be commended for years of hard work which has led to winning 3 of the last 4 Olympic Gold medals(and two Silvers) and American men currently holding the top 3 spots in the World rankings.

Trickle down to the scholastic level would be a good thing. Best of luck to Mr. Suhr and continued success to his athletes. ( I am hopeful he has a broader perspective than the article suggests)

[MadeinTaiwan]

I think there is something a lot of people are missing in this arguement.

A lot of people point to elite mens results as if to justify what they feel is the right way to vault, but ever since the collapse of the former Soviet Union the countrys that formerly made up the USSR now have a lot less money to put into sport.
Which I think is also a factor that could have led to the "decline" in eastern Europeans preformances.