Worst indoor season ever ?

[rainbowgirl28]

You are right about the run thing DJ. But maybe the Petrov influx is hurting too, because too many coaches are concentrating so much on technique, people are just getting slow.

I don't think that people are focusing on technique at the expense of speed. I think that the talent level is lower, leading to slower vaulters, and the entire sport of T&F is cleaner than it was in the 80s and 90s, so I would expect the raw speed to be a little lower for that reason as well. I would imagine that the average raw speed of the top 50 in the world has decreased since the 80s for a combo of the above reasons.

The talent drain is an issue in other countries as well (sportwide, not just PV) and the sponsorship issues are hitting them as well. Remember the videos and eBay auction Mesnil did a year or two ago to try and find a sponsor?

Maybe what Mark Hollis needs to get a sponsor is to run around naked? I don't think Amanda would like that too much though

[kev44000]

The entire sport of T&F is cleaner than it was in the 80s and 90s

Excellent Point.

In the mid 80's at an NCAA championship 18.02 was only 5th place.

[IluvMarkHollis]

Haha well if that;s what it takes Becca...

[dj]

Becca,

I believe it's a little un-fair and criminal/liable to accuse anyone of drug use… unless you were there, saw them using, helped them use… yadayada… I NEVER saw even one of my athletes use anything close to illegal, only saw one "pill" in the locker room in the 70's, little blue dianabol, Never heard any of them say I "used this", or were tested and caught. I had one athlete that was tested 18 times in 24 months!!!!!!!!!! CLEAN..

Many of the athletes that use could do it without using anyway… they just are "hooked" and don't have the confidence or know how…

I am not going to use the excuse that the "drugs" back then were better than today, that all the champions and records were "drug" induced… Steroids got the "inflammation" from the system, that gave you more and a better use of the oxygen in the system…correct flow of the oxygen and it's maximum use allowed you to train harder… there are numinous, legal/natural ways to get the inflammation from your system, including the packet of herbs in the Qivana products I use (ask a couple of your readers that tried it).. legal, natural herbs have been used in China since 1000 AD!!!!

The athlete can do this on a daily basis by "living" right…….. lack of sleep deprives you of oxygen.. creates inflammation, caffeine burns oxygen, alcohol burns oxygen and creates inflammation…even processed sugars burn oxygen…….. diet… the wrong diet creates inflammation and burns oxygen!!!!

I changed all these things in the top decathlete I'm coaching and his working, resting and recovery heart rates improved by 3/4 beats in one week!!!!! He scored 7637 in his first Senior level decathlon after 4 years of not even finishing one.

Look I was 5-9 145 lbs (and white) and after 5 years of hard/smart training I ran 10.72 --LJ 25-1—Triple Jumped 50 feet-High Jumped 2.02… I hit a basketball goal on my forearm 30cm/12 inches down from the tip of my middle finger.. could dunk and kick (Karate style) my right foot half way up the basketball net to the goal!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I vaulted 16 feet (practice) right before Kjell Isaksson jumped a 5.51 WR.. and this was with 4 vault sessions over two years and with a previous PR of 14-6!!!

I did it without drugs!!! So you can't tell me that a 6-4 world class athlete can't jump 5.60 plus in his sleep!!!!!!!!! Of course he has to learn/train or be capable of running.

If an athlete can run 9.3mps, correctly for the last 6 steps there is NO reason he can't jump 5.75 every time down the runway… The correct answer has just not been found or understood………..

Before I came over here (this time-2008) they have been producing 100's of 4 meter jumpers!! I produced a 4.50m - 15 year old HERE in 1982!!!!

They now see what had to be changed, thinking and technically, and will start producing 5 meters and up to world class….

Find the answers…. No more excuses

dj

[dj]

PS

i forgot to add that i ran 14.1 hand time in the 110 Hurdles, 5 times, in 1969- 14.3 and 14.5 hand in the Decathlon 110 hurdles and 14.63 electric in my last decathlon AFTER breaking the tip of my Fibula the day before in the high jump.......

Badgees!! we don't need no("X") badgees.......

dj

[stavhoppare]

There have been many great, big, fast vaulters......There have been many great, fast small vaulters....There has NEVER been a GREAT slow vaulter. Speed (sprinting) is a strength event (ever see any weak sprinters?) And pole vaulting is a SPEED event.

Yes, length of run is very important but I believe most athletes/coaches do not understand the mechanics.....Just by running farther does not make the vaulter faster. They have to be fast to need the extra distance in a long approach.

For example, Carl Lewis's approach was about 165 feet....Just so happens that is 50 meters. Also, just so happens that is about where he reached top speed in the 100m dash. Faster vaulters, long jumpers and sprinters need more distance to gain top speed.

Tommy Turtle is slow. When he starts as fast as he can, coming out of his shell and down the runway, he is going top speed before the second leg hits the ground. Tommy does not need a long approach!!!

In order to run faster, number one....is be blessed with fast twitch fibers (choose your parents wisely). Then the key is to apply more force correctly to the ground. Stride frequency is a limiting factor but force (strength) is not. It is how hard the vaulter works to become a better sprinter with the pole. I have posted several times how to set up a correct approach and would be happy to do so again if requested. It is lengthy but not hard to understand.

[ADTF Academy]

I think the interview by Derek Miles indirectly sums it up perfectly. The culture in the US is not set up to aid or help post collegiate vaulters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKYRkTaFXD4

Bottom line it takes time and many are not willing to take the time it takes and quit. Be patient and give the next generation a chance to come into their own. If you want to help throw them some prize money or appearance fees to come hang out at your club with your youth. As Derek stated the struggle becomes do I work or do I vault.

Everyone can keep preaching technique, technique... There is not a vaulter out there that wouldn't love to focus and train from the best of the best and learn. The reality is they can't afford to do it. Perfect example is a young lady who was thinking of moving into town made the comment to me, "I have learned more in 3 days than in 4 years of college." I had to watch her realize that sadly she may not be able to move to actually train (where do I live, where do I work, how do I pay bills, can I train and work 40 hours a week, can I find a job that will let me travel to compete, will there be enough money left over to eat, how can I pay you for your time). This is exactly why we have such a big gap right now. Let's address those issues as they are the real ones. Technical issues take care of themselves over time and have to do with more issues than just doing it.


Recently I have had some lengthy conversations about this sport with outsiders and most of them go why would anyone continue competing if there is no money. Find or ask anyone deep in debt how they feel every morning when they wake up? How much weight is on their shoulders each day worrying about how to pay this and that bill. Than think how can that kind of person train? Personally I wish more athletes would do what Derek did and tell people how it is. This sport is failing all over the world. That should be our #1 concern.

Non Americans think well its the USA it must be amazing to live and train. Track and Field here is so not important its worst ratings than figure skating, bowling and watching paint dry (nothing wrong with them either). Our culture is set up to care about basketball, football, baseball and other sports. You must first understand that.

[ras]

Good article in this month's "Track and Field News" regarding some of what's been brought up here.

[Barto]

Everyone would like to to be good.
Some want to be good.
Few need to be good.

You have to have a need to be good. The successful vaulters I know are all flawed in that they have an internal void that is only filled by vaulting. Without this "flaw" they would never go through the troubles and sacrifices that come hand in hand with vaulting.

Find a way to stay in the game. The one who stays in the game the longest wins!

my 2 cents,
barto

[altius]

In Chapter Three of BTB2 I attempted to address this issue and introduced the concept of the 'coaching context' . There I outlined the perfect coaching environment -one that rarely exists in the USA but was best illustrated by Petrov's original training base in Donetsk and to a lesser degree by the Olympic training centre in Formia where he worked most recently. In Formia for example Italian athletes were all supported by and competed for one or other branch of the Defence or Police forces. Once their athletic career ended they were given the option of continuing in their particular branch as a career.

In Germany and Sweden - such a system has long been in operation - but involving major companies such as Bayer -who support the Leverkusen club for example. The UK is also doing something similar with the monies coming from the government as they gear up for the Olympics. But they have their own problems! Even tiny Australia is trying to find ways to support its better athletes and not only has the Institute of sport in Canberra but State and regional institutes as well - but there are many limitations in this country - not the least of which is the dearth of opportunities for suitable competition.

Unfortunately in the USA track and field is completely overshadowed by the so called revenue sports which not only drain off financial support but also take many great athletes away as well - dj wants speed - go and see if you can recruit some of those wide receivers! Some hope of that!!!!

Ironically the US Collegiate system was once the envy of the world in terms of developing athletes but now in many/most events you need to go on beyond the age of 22 if you hope to be successful. At the moment this is extremely difficult to do on your own, so as barto implies you have to be almost an obsessive compulsive if you are to continue. That it can be done is evidenced by Tim Mack and Nick Hysong.

[ADTF Academy]

http://www.flotrack.org/speaker/7406-To ... fter-Track


Athlete #2 talking about same things... Sad but true when an Olympic Medalist kind of joking stats that if an athlete asked him about becoming a professional pole vaulter he would tell them don't do it.

[KLocke]

Well, there are always choices. He had many choices but chose his own path. He may call it luck. I beg to differ. Toby is very talented. Now, he's doing an excellent job coaching pole vault. Go figure! still in the game

http://www.flotrack.org/speaker/7406-Toby-Stevenson/video/482077-Toby-Stevenson-Life-After-Track


Athlete #2 talking about same things... Sad but true when an Olympic Medalist kind of joking stats that if an athlete asked him about becoming a professional pole vaulter he would tell them don't do it.