How are you training and when?

[souleman]

I e-mailed Doug about my progress on the roll back bars and he wrote the following back. I wrote, As to roll backs, I'm not doing them every day but I do do those more than anything else. As I told you before I don't bang 'em out one right after another. I'll do one, then go do something or watch TV then, (instead of going and having a heater, I'm in the process of quitting and so far so good. At least I haven't killed anybody yet) I'll go out and try another. When I miss now, it's just a matter of just needing a little right footed kick against the upright (which actually hangs down from the deck) to get me all the way over. I do go over and then on the return I'll straight leg the curl back and I find I've gotten in the habit of pulling up on the bar so my arms are about at a 90 degree angle or better before I relax them and let myself down to the ground. So do I keep doing them as often as I can or should I put them on a rule of 2 or 3 or 4 schedule? He answered, It's important to get to rollbacks consecutively so you can build a rhythm. You almost make more gains on the failed one after you can do two or more. Number one is always the sketchy one because you may have to bend your arms or use your foot to get over. My big break through came after I started ending on the "negatives" with ankle weights. I'd put 2.5 lbs. on each foot, use a step to jump into the position, and then lower as slowly as I could for 4 sets of three. My suggestion would be to give yourself four shots two days a week to see how many you can add up to and then try and beat that number. My first good day was 2,2,2,2. Then BOOM, I was getting 2,5,4,3 and so on. On two other days just do the weighted negatives. Hypothetically, Monday/Thursday = 4 X Max=?. Tuesday/Friday = 4 X 3 weighted negatives. My guess is that after a couple of weeks of this you will have at least one set of 10. I hope this helps you and feel free to pass this on to anyone. To this I add the more of us old farts that are vaulting and not getting hurt, the better. I know most of you guys are actively vaulting and are passed my stage of training, but I appreciate you looking at this and responding for the ones of us who are on the come back trail. We'll talk to you all...............Later..............Mike

[Robert schmitt]

Robert, that is really amazing in my opinion. If I do the numbers correctly, the 14' 6" jump is about 22" over your hand grip! Does your use of an "at weight", or slightly less, pole cause the vault to be any slower than it might be from a longer run with a heavier pole? If so, does that cause any problems or does it give a little more time to work on technique? I'm wondering if it would be good training for me to work on a lighter pole from a shorter distance, knowing I need to work on my form on top. I'm 5'9", weigh 145 and usually jump on a Pacer FX 13' 7" (4.15m) 160 or 165# pole, gripping about 13' (down 6 or 7 inches from the top). Any suggestions?

Thanks That run is my favorit b/c the vault feels so good to me, but when I watch Mcane Lee jump nearly 16' on a 14' pole at last years freedom fair vault, and one of the guys at WWU I occassionly practice with jumped 16'1" on a 14'6" - I feel kind of mediocre.

It's going to be hard for me to give you an exact answer. A problem for me is I broke my back when I missed the pits in college so if I get any sense of the pole not moving I'll flag off. another big factor is that I have no other poles that are short and big to compare to. I have to move to 14'6" or 15' poles holding at the same grip. Finally- Becca can attest to this- I take of way under typically Like- 12-24". I just started taking off on to slightly out on that 4 step when I jumnped 14'6". (In that avatar I was generally taking off from 9'-9'6" where I should have been at 11'3". When I blow though the 190 pole I go to 14'6" old pacers (pre-best flex) and I cann't put the same jump together on them, but there I'm gripping down nearly a foot. In my avatar I'm jumping on a 15' 185# pacer carbon (pre best flex) gripping 10" down, from 6 lefts, my pr from that run is 14'7" two years ago. Again I never feel comfortable on those poles. So there is too many variables that I don't want to say for sure why the 13'9" 190 works for me.

However,
Yes I think it is helpful to be gripping near the top of a pole for timing. I don't think having the vault slower is neccesarly a good thing b/c the longer you are on the pole the more E you lose. I think b/c that it is a pole I can grip near the top and keep moving I have the confidence and good timming to swing and finish on it.

I would recomend vaulting from shorter runs, you can take more vaults, you are not going all out so you decrease the likely hood of injury, and because I don't have to be "trying to run" I can concentrate on my take off, swing, and other tech components.

Now you can implement short run vaulting in various ways, lonstar, if I understand correctly has vaulters start from one left untill they best thier one left pr mark, then they move back to two lefts untill they best thier two left pr mark and so on back to thier full run. then repeat

Since I only vault on average 1-2 times a month I kind of go with what I feel like I can do that day. So on a typical vaulting day I'll warm up with some drills. Take some 3 left vaults on a 13'3" 185 or much more commonly some 4 left vaults on the 190. If I really move that pole and feel good after 2-3 vaults I'll move back to a 6 left approch (just because I have no poles that fit a 5 left approach) I generally only have 4-5 good vaults from that run then I move down to the 4 left approch and I can take a ton of jumps (15-20 range) from that run even tough my energy is low.

hope this rambling is helpful and makes sense

[master]

Robert, thanks for the long description. It is very helpful to hear how a vaulter thinks through the situation and makes a decision on pole, grip and run. I still have one fairly straight forward question (if there is such a thing for this sport). Would it seem reasonable for me to find a pole that is 140# or so (I weigh 145) to try and work with from the short run. If I try to stay on my regular poles (160 or 165), I don't think I could penetrate sufficiently.

[vaultwest]

Hey guys
interesting topic
For what is worth. This is how I deal with vaulting at different approaches and using the proper pole. Luckily for me I have a huge pole selection but this is what I do. I am 50 years old and so far this year I have jumped 13'6" indoors. I had to train/jump outdoors all indoor season this year and in Oregon that is not always the best thing, so I am happy with where I am at but I hope to get over 14 feet or better this summer. I Like to go from a 9 stride (18 step) approach when I vault at meets. Currently I jump on 14'6" poles and I end up on a 170 pound pound pole which is only about 5 pounds over my weight. My hand hold is almost too low to use this length of pole but I know that the higher 14'6" sail piece helps me jump higher and of course I am hoping that my hand hold will move up later in the season. At the indoor nationals I got my hand hold up to 13'7" probably should get it up closer to 14' for these poles to work the best. So with that baseline info I will now move on to what practice goes like. I very seldom jump from 9 in practice not enough adrenaline and takes too much recovery time(days and days to recover), I do this just enough so I have confidence once I get to the meet. I have vaulted for so long with the 9 stride approach the rythm of it is ingrained into me so I don't need to practice it so much any more. For some reason I don't like the feel of an 8 stride approach so I seldom use it. I do most of my intense practice jumping from a 7 stride approach and normaly use 14' poles in the 165, 170 and 175 pound range generaly using a 13' 3" to 13'6" hand hold. I also do a lot of vaults from a 6 stride approach, here I use 13'6" poles in the 160, 165, 170, 175 & 180 pound ranges holding at 12'9" to 13'3". Finally when I am not feeling so good I vault from a 5 stride approach and here I vault on 13' poles in the 160, 165. 170 & 175 pound range holding from 12' 3" to 12'9". As I said I am very lucky to have all these poles but that being said I hope to share how by training this way I can hold close to the proper area on each length pole(so they work properly) from each approach and thus beable to work on different aspects of the vault. I think shorter approach vaulting really allows for working on techincal aspects of the vault. One can take more vaults, there is less fear involved and the vault just seems slower so you can focus on fixing technique flaws. Now to figure this out I disagree with most of the experts in the field today. The convintional wisdom says that each 6 inches of pole length that you change equals 10 pounds. I have found it to be around 5 pounds myself so perhaps the true number is somewhere in between. Anyway what has always worked for me is the following approach if I am on a 13' 175# pole the equivalent 13'6" pole is a 170, or visa versa. Then if at the next longer approach I am on a 13'6" 175 and want to go to a 14' pole I go to a 14' 170 etc. Now the trick hear is what you do with your hand hold( moving hand up 3 inches seems the best) and whether you know how to modifiy your timing/techinque ( just realizing that longer poles feel like the vault takes longer). But in my experience vaulting and coaching my 5 pound rule has served me well. Most coaches say that large numbers of reps in any technical event are one of the most important factors in success so I think short aproach vaulting is even more important for us old guys and hopefully this will help someone with their vaulting.

[master]

vaultwest, would you think it reasonable for me to drop down to a 13'2" 145# pole to practice from 3 or 4 lefts? I'm thinking that adjusting my run length to control my speed would result in me not overloading the pole.

[vaultwest]

Master

That pole might work fine, it might be a little small but jump on it and you will know after a couple of jumps . For me I don't go for full vaults from 4 or less lefts, I just don't feel like I can get enoough going from there to get much done, But obviously others do and can so I would try it from 4 or 5 lefts and see if that pole works, if not give me a buzz and I think I might just have a pole that none of my jumpers are using this year that might work for you.
Later

[vaultmd]

Dan,

Welcome to polevaultpower.com! Good to see you here.

Wilson

[vaultwest]

Wilson
thanks man, good to be with all of you guys. I was a little unsure if I wanted to get into this but seems like it is a really positive thing hope to see you around.
Vaultwest

[Robert schmitt]

That sound reasonable. You might want to borrow some pole just to figure out what wieght and hand hold you can move from that run. If you are gripping 13' from 7 lefts right now a 12'6" 145-150 may be what you need from 4 lefts. Then you can grip it within the top 6".

[Bubba PV]

New to the group. I sure see a lot of good sensible advice here. I would hate to think that any of us are maturing, but getting smarter isn't so bad. Bubba

[master]

Hey Bubba, welcome. In my emails to you this morning I was going to ask if you came to this site. You and your web pages have been mentioned on here several times. In fact, being mentioned on here is how I decided to make contact with you in the first place. It will be great to have your active contributions.

[souleman]

Oh God, I've been busted! For what it's worth Doug, thanks to me, you are not new to this forum. Anytime someone askes "how can I get inverted"?I send them right to your site. And I've done that more than I'm willing to bet these guys are probably ok with. Anyway, thanks for coming over and welcome to the madness. I did chuckle about your "sensible advise" remark. Hell, half of it's from you! Talk to you later..........................Mike