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I never heard of this format before: each vaulter gets only 3 attempts (total; makes and misses) for the whole competition.

It's going to be used in a rather large relay meet, and I suppose to keep the meet on schedule (24 teams, boys and girls) and get boys and girls over with in the 90 minutes they budgeted for each, that this is the format they decided to use. (They are doing the same with the HJ).

Anyone have experience with this? (It strikes me as quite bizzare. I mean, it seems like they might as well just cancel the event. Kids will have more warmup jumps than competition jumps.)

I'm not a fan of meets that stray from NFHS rules. Budget an appropriate amount of time for the event. Save time by having a lot of helpers, run boys and girls together, and raise the bar 8"/9"/1' at a time instead.

Divalent wrote:I never heard of this format before: each vaulter gets only 3 attempts (total; makes and misses) for the whole competition.

Who thought of this format? A throws coach?

If they are looking to save time, set a challenging starting height.
Have the first 2-3 heights move up 1’ at a time.

Or better yet, throw out the budgeted 90 minutes altogether.

One of my biggest pet peeves has always been coaches, athletes and parents who make a big deal out of how long a meet takes to run. What’s your hurry? We’re not in it for the power. We’re not in it for the glory. And we’re sure not in it for the wealth. We’re in it till it’s over… (Sorry, started channeling my inner Meatloaf for a second) Track meets take however long they take. If you don’t want to be there for that long, start looking for another line of work.

I am in general against all rules that are not standard IAAF rules (i.e., means also a lot of the High school and college rules they have in the US). However last summer in the European Team Championship, they experimented with several "new rules". One of them was this version for vertical jumps:

2.2. In the vertical jumps each competitor shall be entitled to a maximum of 4 (four) fouls only
throughout the whole field event. All the other relevant IAAF Rules for the vertical jumps will
apply. IAAF Rule 181.8 will apply for placings.
2.2.1. The time permitted for each attempt in High Jump and Pole Vault shall be 1 (one)
minute except when consecutive attempts are by the same athlete in which case IAAF Rule
180.16 shall apply.
2.2.2. The winner of the competition is allowed to continue according to IAAF Rule
181.2

Based on the results of the meet, it seems like it worked fine.

I just looke at the big meet at Linfield College (Oregon) this coming weeknd and it says that it has a max 3 jumps and top 8 go to finals.
So it looks like they are employing the same rules!

Back in the day (60s) we had a meet called the Chester Streamline Meet. Total of 3 failed attempts and you are out. It was different and everyone was aware of the rules going into this special meet. In other events the "streamlining" were things such as no finals, everything based on time, 3 attempts only in the LJ, TJ, and throws. And each school only had one contestant in each event. Just something a little different!

Tumbleweed wrote:I just looked at the big meet at Linfield College (Oregon) this coming weekend and it says that it has a max 3 jumps and top 8 go to finals.
So it looks like they are employing the same rules!

It sounds like they copied the rules for the throws and horizontal jumps, possibly without thinking.


I have run into another rule that I do not like. As background, I have mainly done meets under NCAA and USATF rules, not high school rules. Wisconsin (or some meets in Wisconsin) use a variant of Five-Alive wherein when a vaulter misses the first attempt at a height they are required to take the second attempt immediately (and may take the third attempt if they miss the second attempt. This is counter to the nature of the PV rules where consecutive attempts receive extra time (3 vs 1 in NCAA, 2 vs 1 IAAF). If you reflect on this standard rule you will conclude that requiring an attempt immediately is a bad idea -- it might have developed in the HJ where it would not be so big a deal, since the effort level is different).

Have others experienced this rule, is it a 'real' rule or a procedure that is sometimes used 'locally'? (I have just sent a note to PVP/Becca on this)

They must have posted them wrong as the meet did not run the PV under the rules even though their own website had it listed...go figure.

WIAA rules for Wisconsin, 1. Contestants in pole vault and high jump are required to take a second attemp at the same height or pass (if the first attempt is a miss) immediately after the first attempt.
a. The option also is provided to take the third attempt (if the second attempt is a miss) immediately after the second attempt.
b. The decision to pass must be communicated immediately to the event judge after the miss.

Wisconsin has been that way since at least early 70's - yes I am old

From a coaching and safety stand point, 2 and 1 is a horrible way to run this event. The coach never has a chance to change anything when a vaulter has to get back on the runway.

And, before anybody says that it speeds up the meet, come watch me run a meet. Five alive is just as fast if you have a good pit crew.

vcpvcoach has it right! The pit crew is KEY! Worked a meet on Saturday at Widener University (Chester, PA). We had 15 women, and we were done in about 70 min. At one point we had completed 45 vaults in 37 min. None of the women felt rushed. The 5 young men (work study program) had the standards moved and the bar up as quick as could be. They did a great job and made the event run smoothly. I'm gald someone mentioned the "pit crew" they are an important part of having a PV well run and they are often forgotten. Thanks vcpvcoach!

Dan