Video of Jack Whitt's recent jumps

[rainbowgirl28]

RG, when will you be adding Jack's name to this list?

http://polevaultpower.com/records/hsrecords.php

Kirk

Next time I update it. It's not real high priority right now. I might just wait until the end of the season.

[KirkB]

I might just wait until the end of the season.

Yeh, if you wait til the end of the season, you won't have to keep updating it every few weeks.

Kirk

[dj]

hey

i wasn't criticizing!!! Tim is awesome…

these were my thoughts about technique.. has nothing to do with being personal and was only presented as constructive…

the slightly closer grip would allow for a faster swing which in turn would let him “swing” to vertical. Solving “flaws” we think we see by using physics.

dj

[kev44000]

I'd consider a couple of higher bars before the record attempt so he can dial in his technique. Jumps 4-6 are usually the best for high schoolers...if you can still consider an 18-footer a high schooler.

Maybe 16'6", 17'3, 17'9, 18' 1/2, 18'3 1/2.

We have been comming in at 16.00 to get the win. Also to check conditions for blow threws. I hate no heighting, The best college vaulter I feel comes in to high sometimes , he has no heighted at nationals ,conference and other meets. I feel you need to get in the game before you can play. We have been going 16.0 17.0 17.6 18.350 when there is a decent tailwind. When the bar goes to 18.0350 he is on his fourth jump. We have a couple of times with no wind at all went for 18.0050. When he broke the state record at 17.1075 and went to 18.0350 I received several e-mails wondering why we did not go to 18.00 , so at Texas we did. I have a nice picture close up of the jump, that was a 18.5 clearence at least. It is hard to know what to do Jack has three high school meets left. The down time at the local meets kills him. We have to carry a measuring device and our own sticks to put the bar up with. He will go to the Golden South, Great Southwest ,Nike, and Juniors in the summer. Jack has 13 wins no loses been over 17 10 times, 17.06 6 times 17.10 1 time and 18 1 time. His goals were to Jump 18.00 before he turned 19 check, break the state record 17.09 check, go undeafeted on the way, be consistant check, another state championship, break the National Record. Thanks to all Jack's supporters.

[kev44000]

First off he is not a perfect jumper, alot of people aren't but judging by the videos (texas relays especially) he doesn't have to change anything to jump the record. In the Ardmore video he takes off pretty far under as compared to his other jumps, I am sure when the bar goes up to that magical number the adrenaline kicks in and if he can learn to control that, he will jump 18'4. His timing is getting better. He will get it as soon as he gets some good conditions and hits a good takeoff.

Could not have said better myself. Thanks for all your help and support.

[kev44000]

Another idea ...

Jack is just below Joe Dial on the all-time HS list ...

Boys Outdoor Records

All-time
18-3 Tommy Skipper, Sandy, OR 6/15/03
18-2.25 Eric Eshbach, Orangefield, TX 1999
18-2 Brandon Richards, Santa Barbara, CA 1985
18-1.25 Joe Dial, Marlow, OK 1981

So why not go 18-1.5 to try to beat Joe Dial's record first, then go 18-3.5 to beat Skipper's?

Rationale: Even after 18-1.5, he can still double-PR on a good day. When you're hot, it doesn't matter where the bar is.

If you want to save jumps, you could do the 18-1.5 instead of the 17-0. That is, go 16-7 17-7 18-1.5 18-3.5 (or something like that).

I'm still amazed at the time Tommy Skipper STARTED at 19-0, cleared it on his first try, then called it a day.

Kirk

Kirk thanks for the support. It is getting later in the season now and we will go strickly for the record. He will put together a jump soon and the bar needs to be at 18.0350. It is hard to duplicate a great jump, we found that out in Texas and he was on. Jack is on his fourth jump at 18.0350 at all meets, he does not miss at the lower heights. We also received bigger poles from Spirit this week.

[kev44000]

hey

i wasn't criticizing!!! Tim is awesome…

these were my thoughts about technique.. has nothing to do with being personal and was only presented as constructive…

the slightly closer grip would allow for a faster swing which in turn would let him “swing” to vertical. Solving “flaws” we think we see by using physics.

dj

All help is great. Thanks for the support.

[KirkB]

... Jack has three high school meets left. ... He will go to the Golden South, Great Southwest, Nike, and Juniors in the summer.

Jack has 13 wins no losses been over 17 10 times, 17.06 6 times 17.10 1 time and 18 1 time. His goals were to Jump 18.00 before he turned 19 check, break the state record 17.09 check, go undeafeted on the way, be consistant check, another state championship, break the National Record. Thanks to all Jack's supporters.

Jack's season record this year is absolutely PHENOMENAL!

Just TWO more goals to meet!

I don't know about the 4 other HS 18-footers on the all-time list, but I cannot imagine that they've had such a HUGE, CONSISTENT season as Jack! Even the rumor that Skipper cleared 18-0 four times in HS turned out to be just a rumor, I think. It turned out (unless I'm mistaken) that it was as a UO freshman that he cleared it 4 times (considering that the Golden West and other summer meets are post-HS-graduation).

Jack's consistency over 17-0 is a testiment to his competitive acumen (smartness) ... the great coaching he's been getting ... and I'll even venture to guess, Kev ... the great support he gets from you!

As I said before ... I'm just an armchair quarterback ... watching in awe as Jack's season unfolds! Unheard of! Great job ... all 3 of you!

Kirk

[dj]

hey

did i see and now miss a post by Tim???...

or was it a dream... over here we see mirages all the time... ; )

what I read was an outstanding explanation of what he is doing.. not that an explanation is/was necessary from Tim at all… what I read just shows his grasp of the event, his caring for and success of the athlete and the passion for the sport…

keep doing what you do… our ramblings are just a way to share in your success… and I know Jack will not be your last success story..

dj

[Tim McMichael]

I deleted this last night because on second reading I thought it sounded too defensive and arrogant. The last thing I want to do is give the impression that I don't need or value advice. This board and the people on it have been more help to me than I can express, and I don't want anything I say to imply otherwise. Anyway, here it is again:


It is not a good idea for Jack to be thinking about his jump in technical terms at this point. His feel for his jump is just phenomenal right now, and talking about his technique in detail would inhibit that. The vault relies on kinesthetic awareness, not the spoken or written word. Unless what a coach says can be immediately transferred to a visual image or neuromuscular awareness, it is of limited value, and can mess things up that are already going well.

That said, I think there is no harm in talking about “why” Jack is doing certain things while not focusing too much on the “how” of his jump. If you want to read a detailed discussion of the theory behind Jack’s jump you can read my “Oklahoma Pole Vault Manifesto” that I posted some time ago.

The first thing to know about Jack’s jump, and this is scary, is that he is still developing. His vault is still very rough around the edges, but he will continue to get better as time goes by. There is a definite progression through stages in the development of this jump. Things that look like errors are often just stages that an athlete is passing through. If you pull up some of Jack’s jumps from last year and compare them to his jump now, you can see the direction of his development.

The first goal of a drive vault is to jump on very big poles. This means that an emphasis on hitting the box hard and staying behind the pole through the swing must be established. When I say big poles, I mean gigantic. I jumped on a 16’5” 16.4 (gripping 15’ 4”) at 138 pounds. Joe Dial jumped on a 17’ 4” 14.8 (gripping 15’10”) at 150 pounds. Jack is jumping on a 16’5” 13.5 (gripping 15’10”) at 175 pounds. We just got three 16’9” poles, the biggest of which is a 13.1, and he is going to need them. This is why I have left the wide grip alone for now. It is very hard for the hips to pass the pole too early with a wider grip. This sacrifices a little in his ability to get on his back, but it can still be done, and we gain something in consistency as he continues to go through poles. He has gone from a 15’ 180 to the poles he is on now in just two years, and he is still blowing through poles and needing bigger ones. When this is happening it is murder to come up short, ever. No matter what, Jack needs to hit the center of the pit on every jump. Notice how wide his top end is on the Ardmore jump. This is exactly what I want, and the wider grip helps this happen.

Also, as an athlete grips higher they need to widen their grip to maintain the angle of the bottom arm at the plant. This is essential to consistent timing as the grip gets higher. The great French vaulters used a wider grip than Jack has right now, and I saw Theirry Vigneron jump 19’4” with that grip. Jeff Hartwig’s grip was as wide as Jack’s when he Jumped 19’10” Jack’s grip is heading toward the 16’9” to 17’ range in the next year or so. Another issue is the weight of the poles. Jack is nowhere near as strong as he will be in the next few years. If he stays on track he should be somewhere between a 12.5 to 11.8. They have to put a lot more glass in a pole to make it that stiff. There is more difference between a 13.5 and a 12.5 than there is between a 14.5 and a 13.5. We may narrow his grip a tad in the next few weeks, for the reasons dj suggested, but its current width is the right one for the jumps that are coming.

As for his tuck, if you read my “Manifesto” you will see that I don’t believe it is an error with a drive vault. It is certainly an error with the Petrov model, but that is not the model Jack is following. Also, as his grip gets higher, the pole will bend more in the handle. This will put Jack’s chest farther in and his trail leg farther back automatically. His swing will also become more powerful, just through the natural development of his timing and strength. When this happens, the tuck will become less pronounced, and he will push off farther.

So, what I am trying to say is that Jack’s jump is still developing, and in my experience he is exactly at the place he should be. He has followed the phases that I went through as I learned this jump almost exactly. The difference is that Jack is developing much more quickly than I did. This is also one of the reasons I have been so conservative with Jack’s progress. I wanted to make sure he was solid with one thing before we moved to another.

Last year for instance, he was coming down on a lot of bars, but I insisted that his standards be as far back as possible, except in meets where he needed to make a bar. In practice I kept his standards 95 cm back, and I would not bring them in. This was frustrating, but it forced Jack to move the pole first and go after the bar second, an essential timing sequence for a drive vault. I caught some flack from other coaches for this, but there was a method to my madness, and I’m glad I did not give up on it.

Lastly, I helped Jack shape his vault into the technique that Joe and I used out of necessity. I did not know the Petrov model well enough to teach it when I started with Jack, so I went with what I knew best. I am absolutely certain that Petrov is the best model in terms of ease to learn, teach, and develop. I use it exclusively with beginners now. I am, however, still convinced that the Oklahoma drive vault can more than hold its own if done properly. It is just much, much, more difficult to learn. Joe jumped 19’6” with a 15’9” grip. Jack will grip well over 16’9” before all is said and done. If his jump mirrors ours exactly, factoring in a little more loss due to the entropy inherent in longer levers, it still equals a very, very high jump. I know this is all provisional and hasn’t happened yet, but Jack is on track for that kind of jumping, and I am doing my best to continue to set the foundation for the future.

Compare Jack’s jump to this one, and notice that my grip is almost as wide as jack’s is now, only on a smaller frame and a lower grip. This was at the stage of my development when all that mattered was getting on bigger poles. The amazing thing is that Jack has reached this point as a senior in high school and it took me till my senior year in college. The bar is 18’6.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPHdlD8Gk4c

Thank you for the comments, I hope this clarifies where we are coming from.

[KirkB]

... it sounded too defensive and arrogant. The last thing I want to do is give the impression that I don't need or value advice.

Tim, I don't think you're defensive or arrogant at all ...

You are not only an extremely talented former athlete and current coach, but you are in a very unique position as far as American coaches are concerned ...

1. You explain things very well. e.g. the post above, the Oklahoma Manifesto, etc.
2. You are confident enough in your own knowledge and experience that you're willing to provide counter-arguments to the Petrov Model
3. You proved the success of the Drive Model thru your own personal experience.
4. You're proving the success of the Drive Model thru Jack's phenomenal rise to stardom.
5. You're willing to adapt a vaulter to the model that seems to make the most sense in any given situation. (This is the one that I don't think ANY other coach IN THE WORLD can claim!)
6. You're willing to defend your coaching techniques publicly even when you don't have to.

Tim, you have a special gift in the way you explain things ... openly and honestly ... and I for one appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

I will remain a Petrover, but I truly respect your success with the Drive Model. I still don't quite understand it ... because I never have and I never will experience it ... but you're proof that it really, really works ... if you know what you're doing ... and you do!



Kirk

[Tim McMichael]

I have to say this.

I have enjoyed teaching Petrov to my beginners as much as anything else I have done this year. They way their eyes light up and the joy and shock that registers as they find out how easy and fun pole vaulting can be is something that I will never get tired of.